http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Pa...ate=Automakers


I have no experience with this company or its product..

HOWEVER in reading about it, their conversion product offers one thing that we currently not had experience with.. True fuel flexibility..

What I mean is their conversion kit is basically a fuel injector intercept box, but the thing that caught my attention was the conversion kit apparently is able to determine fuel composition, or the concentration of ethanol to gasoline, which means if it works, it makes for a true flex fuel system.

Here's the caveat, It does not ignition mapping (obviously) or anything complex, so it may not be a great product for a turbocharged converssion, but its worthy of researching as I do intend to try this thing to convert my Crown Victoria to flex fuel (It was built before the flex fuel ECU's were available for my car)

The most interesting portion of the site is the E85 myths page.. I found that to be very interesting, as it touches on topics frequently asked about. its also the first product that I've seen that actually appears to be EPA certified.

 

great find...yea the myths page is great...lots of good info there...

 

Seems like it just helps keep fuel trims in a range the ecu can handle. Start it up on 50% E85, record what the IPW starts out at and what it stops raising at, then blindly raise the IPW that much all the time. Fuel trim is 0 for 50% E85, goes a little positive on 100% E85, and a little negative on gas.

Could there be any other way it would work with just intercepting the injector signal?

 

there is this too

http://flexfuelus.com/

which looks like a scale wideband box

 

I have read enough on E85 to be convinced to make the switch. I will probably be going on a stand-alone though so I won't need a conversion kit.
You will be happy to know we have E85 at the pump here in TX MalibuJack...at least here in Houston we do, but I assume Dallas does too at Kroger supermarkets.
I am sure too I could use your help on my project here too.

 

I've had experience with www.change2E85.com. The conversion kits are surprisingly easy to install especially on the 4 cylinder. It even works great on turbo charged cars. The higher the compression, the more efficiently it burns E85, so you need less of it. No worries about the injectors not being able to deliver enough. A mechanic friend of mine said the stock injectors ionized the ethanol just fine. I highly recommend this conversion.

 

My buddy Peter at ISP Racing in Beltsville, MD said he can convert my EVO over to E85 easily for around $1200 or so at the time. Not only that Its like runnin methanol it cools the engine and I believe its like 100-105 octane which means more boost and a lot cooler intake and boost temps.

 

Converting an Evo to be exclusively E85 is fairly easy, there are many who have done it. The reason I pointed out this product is because it was designed for "flex fuel" in other words, something that has been a bit elusive to most of us, was how to compensate for different blends of E85, E75, E10 (Premium gasoline), and anything in between. As a true flex fuel vehicle can fill up at any gas station regardless of if E85 is available.

In order to do that on an Evo, you need to know the fuel composition and alter the fuel and timing accordingly.

I'm not sure this particular product is going to do the trick because I have no idea how it determines fuel composition, as it connects inline to the injectors and doesn't appear to have any other connections. Something with lambda feedback all the time would be even better, but then it needs to know what to target at different loads. But it still doesn't address timing anyway.

One of the things I was going to begin working with was a GM Fuel composition sensor, and figuring out how to integrate it with the stock ECU.

However the information on the site in the "myths" link is of value, as is the product itself if it does what is promised for most cars.

 

Petroleum fuels are inferior in perhaps every aspect to alcohol fuels (excluding IPA). Flame propagation rates are also more broad and unchanged with timing so tuning will be much less of a headache. The gas recirculation efficiency also presents a consumption possibility that may help with the sad crisis were in now and at the same time keep the EPA happy (eventually unhappy for being out of a job).

But the concept is the same, 1.0 lambda will be the hottest burn

 

Yep, but these aftermarket systems have to provide feedback, at least for the open loop portion of the maps, although I suppose once it determines the offset needed, the offset remains similar throughout (IE about 30% more fueling for e85 so 30% more IPW) but I definitely have to contact these companies to find out how they work. Especially in performance applications where there is less margin for error.

With me moving to texas, I had done the research on availability, and it looks like the location (north dallas, Dallas or Rockwall county) I'll be moving to, has enough E85 stations available to make experimenting with it reasonable and practical.

 

Jack there are a few Kroger stations in the area that carry E85 and its usually about 30 cents less than 87.

 

Yep, from the list I saw about 14 stations (12 were Kroger and verified to carry it, though they also warned that they were sometimes out of stock on it) in the Dallas area.

 

It appears as though the "Flex Fuel Gold" system is a EPA cert. product but that it is sold though various retailers. I don't know that that change2e85 is necessarily the only "EPA cert." company.

Anyway, installing one of these on top of a standard evo conversion (big injectors, walbro, flash) might solve some small issues before a fuel sensing map change system is set up. The system does appear to monitor the closed loop 02 feedback to STFT and adjust it accordingly. What makes sense to me is that as E85 requires much less air than gas for stoich, the burning process has an abundance of air, showing an A/F ratio of 16 or 17 to one, causing the STFT to dump more E85 in until the system "ran" at 14.7:1, where eventually this sets the LTFT and the black box sees the system consistently running at one fuel trim. From there on, it opens the injector during open loop at this consistent fuel trim. (i.e., LTFT is +30%, during open loop the system holds injector voltage for +30%)

While crude, the system solves what I always thought to be a problem with me switching to e85 (oh yeah that and the fact that the nearest station is over a tank of gas away) is that if E85 wasn't available on a roadtrip or the local stations were out, filling up with 91 would be quite a hassle to switchover, as you'd have to have a middleground map that accounts for the time where your fuel is mixed at like, E65, E30 etc. until you were back on 91. All you'd have to do is flash to 91 boost/timing map, which shouldn't affect drivability (except performance) and the black box would do the rest.

 

Good find MJ.

I really got into the E85 ETHANOL MYTHS part.

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths

 

More excellent info, thanks Jack!