New Zeitronix ECA - Ethanol Content Analyzer
 

More information here http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.htm

Video of gauge in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsWZVrdpSRI

http://www.zeitronix.com/press/2008....75x1000_c6.jpg

http://www.zeitronix.com/press/ECA_x775_c10.jpg

[img]http://www.zeitronix.com/press/ECA_Gauge_huge_c10.jpg

Check it out Zeitronix at SEMA Booth # 20433
Check out other cool products as well:


http://www.zeitronix.com/press/flyerfront.JPG

http://www.zeitronix.com/press/flyerback.JPG

http://www.zeitronix.com/press/2008....75x1000_c6.jpg

Oh wow....thats awesome!

Nice! How much?

+1

Very nice. How much? pls

more info on this? pic doesnt work

Try hitting the Refresh button on your browser

so can you integrate this into a stand alone as say... instead of wideband tracking you could have ethanol percentage tracking, and make fueling adjustment as you go? sounds interesting.

I think they should make the input avail for existing LCD AFRM display. It should be possible with a bit tweaking, no?

That means we would have to get a Flex Fuel sensor, or can we use a different one in our evos?

^ Yes. One from a junk yard will suffice.

+1 on pricing, looks awesome!

....................

This sounds like a very interesting gizmo to have, but what would knowing the ethonal % accomplish for us that a wideband wouldn't already do?

Actually, every E85 pump should have one of these. Then the pump display could accurately show exactly what is available BEFORE I fill up.

Where I buy E85, the big sign over the pump says "E85" and "105 Octane" in VERY big text. However, the fine print says "minimum 70% ethanol". That is a big range. Having a digital readout showing the ethanol content right on the pump would be a terrific idea.

:mitsu:

nothing less expected than great products from Zeitronix.


Very nice!

I have seen it demoed in person. Very impressive!

ROAD/RACE:apimp:

Wire an analog out from the gauge into the ECU, and then I can write a patch that will interpolate between a pump gas tune and an E85 tune based on ethanol content. I've been meaning to write this patch for the last six months, but haven't gotten around to it.

I'd give some financial incentive for something like this for sure. :)

FOR SURE!

I had heard something amazing would be coming out at SEMA...

Maybe I'll put it at the top of my list. :-)

That would be awesome, still hoping for this :beer:

Yeah, I guess its time. I'm going to put in a few late nights in the garage getting my ethanol content sensor and gauge wired up. Then I'll begin on the patch.

Woot, Flex Fuel!!!!

So it sounds like this zeitronix is just the actual gauge and not the actual sensor as well? Or is it both.

It's called "Ethanol Content Analyzer" so it sounds like it is the gauge *and* the sensor but I'm not 100% on that.

skiracer you know?

My understanding its the gauge only for now. I'm not sure if Zeitronix plans on selling the flex fuel sensor or not.

Very cool

How big numbers on the evo X plug in!

Pic of the unit from the SEMA show. Yes my photography skills suck...

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...edIMG_2549.jpg

Price?

$199 for the ECA. Should be on Zeitronix's website shortly...

Great! Is it on their website yet?

It will be added to our site today at:

www.ttp-engineering.com/catalog

Sounds good! I'll have to pick one up this week.

http://ttp-engineering.com/catalog/p...roducts_id=353

http://ttp-engineering.com/catalog/p...roducts_id=354

bundle that with the actual ethanol sensor and you're golden.

When I spoke to ZT on the phone a few days ago, they told me that the round gauge wouldn't be immediately available. Did you hear the same?

The sensors will be available shortly.

At this time they are available from GM parts department or from junkyard FlexFuel vehicles.

So where would you install the sensor (I know it's not available yet)? In the engine bay before it goes into the fuel rail? Where is it on flex vehicles?

Fuel return hose back into the tank. Not recommended for use in high pressure parts of the fuel system.

Everyone is installing it in the fuel return line.

Gotcha... thanks for the info, guys.

I was hoping you guys could get some made for way cheaper than GM sensors are.

Currently the GM sensor (#12570260) via gmpartsdirect.com is $468 with shipping (lists for $661)

$468 + $199 for the gauge = one expensive ($667!!) ethanol content read out.

It will be much less expensive by the time the ECA is ready for shipment.

There is some work going on behind the scenes that will hopefully get pricing on the sensors themselves in a more affordable range.

Awesome that's good to hear. I'm going to have to bug croc about it now. ;)

Why not just ask the station guy (or gal) what they are selling? E70, E85, E(whatever)?

I'm still not getting this thing. What am I missing? I've never heard anyone looking for a gizmo that would tell what octane gasoline their EVO is running - 91, 93, 94, 95, etc. They simply fill up with whatever octane gasoline they want and are tuned for.

Is this simply an answer to a question that no one is really asking? How many of you plan to bounce back and forth between gasoline and E85 anyway? :confused:

It is my understanding that flex fuel vehicles work well simply because they are not tuned for performance at any point in their range of "flex". I presume that in order to "flex" an EVO would also need to be very conservatively tuned. Perhaps I'm simply not understanding what MrFred has in mind.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's craving for a new gizmo. I'm just trying to understand how it would really benefit an EVO owner, over the much less expensive Tephra map swapping functionality.

:mitsu:

Jim, the real power will happen when a true flex fuel mod comes to the Evo. It will interpolate between maps depending on ethanol %. Of course under or over a certain % it will most likely be 100% E85 map or 100% gasoline map.

I believe Mrfred is working on it, so let's shower him with gifts. ;)

very interesting!! This would solve the problems that I am having of finding a station in the PHX area.

lol, i've been buggin crock for a while. So long now i think he put my email addy on his spam list... :lol: {pcfreak}

Think of it this way... you tune the car on e85 (85%) ... then in the winter months many of the pumps will go to lesser concentrations of ethanol. such as E70. I am not exactly sure how different the octane levels are... but lets just assume you tune to run 110 octane. then pump 100 octane into your tank. Your most likely gonna have some issues with the car running smoothly. You may notice the same affect with E85 to E70 or even E80. Knowing the exact amt of ethanol will let you know when you can push the car, or when to dial the boost down a bit. Also, when to re-flash or switch maps...

My question... how is this different than the ethanol gauge that was recently offered in a group buy in the forums. Other than shape and brand name, dont they do the same? Are there other features that i missed?

Someone gets the point. {thumbup}

I do understand what flex fuel functionality is, Bryan. I'm simply trying to understand how this will improve my EVO, or improve my relationships, or make me a better person, or something.

All the people I know with a flex fuel Taurus or Tahoe, etc, only run one fuel or the other. Some owners tried E85, but "didn't like it" for some reason (usual complaint is poor MPG), so they only run gasoline. Others are dedicated conservationist types and will only use E85. I don't know a single owner of a flex fuel vehicle who actually "flexes" their fuel consumption.

:mitsu:

There are two reasons why I want my tune to follow automatically ethanol content:

1) E85 has limited availability in my part of the country, and when I'm on a road trip, there may be times when I can't find E85 when I need to fill up.

2) Ethanol content in E85 varies with season and with filling station. E85 tunes are very aggressive with AFR, boost, and timing. I like the idea of having a tune that will become less and less aggresive as ethanol content is reduced so that the engine always has a good safety factor.

E85 E content varies a lot. It can be as low as E60 and as high as E92. This makes a very big difference in tuning.

The displays from the group by do not have analog outputs (unless you were one of the couple of people that got the signal converter)

I am smack in the middle of E85 country and there are still plenty of times where I would have to go way out of my way to get E85, so I just stop and fill up with premium. My car automatically flips to the 91 octane tune based on my fuel sensor output and I am good to go.

Even when I am filling up with E85 tho, the content changes.. usually between 68% and 82% depending on the time of year and the station I am at.

Hopefully if mrfreds flex fuel patch works out (/nudge) I wont have to run the tank empty before switching fuels, and I wont have to bust out the laptop to deal with the seasonal changes. Everything will "just work"

Having to wait for the empty tank is a PITA.

I agree. I believe this gauge is necessary because the content could change from station to station. We have several here in Columbia. I've called one of these stations before and the attendant actually told me they didn't sell E85...with the pump right outside with the big E85 placard all over it. So you can see why I wouldn't necessarily trust an attendant's word on the content of their fuel.

I had to get basically retuned coming back to SC from initially getting tuned in Ohio as the content up there apparently was waaay purer than here.

Looks very nice!
Are the 2 analog outputs 0-5 V?
Can you scale them as you want?

I am completely green to what the analog outputs do. Can you explain what additional functionality this gives me. Thanks{thumbup}

You can run the analog signal to your ECU, so it can make decisions based on ethanol content.

Very cool! so the toggle switch will no longer be needed... Just pump and go

website URL on the ECA added to the first post...

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.htm

Still need a cheap sensor solution. The GM Sensor is $350 + $70 shipping still :(

Over $600 for a E85 content gauge is bleh...

We are working with GM to get FF sensors in bulk and pass savings to you.
Also, junk yard sensors seams to be working just fine.

I ran into. a situation where this guage would have been very usefull. In SD there's only two station that carry E85, with sticker on them that say Min. 85% Ethanol. I took a road trip up to Santa Barbara this past weekend, and the only station on the way, is in Santa Monica (Conserv Fuel). Now there pump sticker says Min. 70% Ethanol. Call the main office and was told, you can only buy 85% Ethanol in the State of California. It's nice to here that, but I would have felt better if I looked at my guage to see the truth.
Looking forward to a resonable priced package, you can plug and play.

The fuel there has been at E92 levels before...

That could explain the Cold Start symtoms I was having, after starting it the next morning. As long as they don't sell anything less then 85% Ethanol. This is were this guage will shine.

Any updates on a sensor solution for our cars and these ethanol content gauges?

Look wut i got today {thumbup} Sorry for the bad photo skillz

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...edIMG_2737.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...edIMG_2740.jpg

[IMG]http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...edIMG_2741.jpg[/IMG]


ECA ghetto wired to my battery just to make sure it works
[IMG]http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...edIMG_2742.jpg[/IMG]

Its a great tool. Just a bit to expensive. Im waiting to see who else will make something like this?

I'll be wiring this unit properly sometime this weekend. I'll take some pics when i'm done. :beer:

^^^^^^^^
Simon, I don't understand the readout. It appears to be saying "E5E". It looks great; I simply don't comprehend it. :confused:

:mitsu:

Looks like it says ESEn as in E sensor, as in sensor error cause its not pluged in. to me ;)

evodood, bingo!
When the sensor is not connected the gauge displays ESEn, and in fuel temperature mode SEnF or SEnC depends on units selected.

I have your zt-2 so i guess I'm just used to you doing things that make sense. :D

So you have seen the dark side of the force. Makes sense :)

DUH! That makes sense. Thanks.

:mitsu:

You can see the GM Flex Fuel sensor in the last pic if you look carefully which is installed to the fuel return lines, but not connected to the ECA yet . Good thing no one noticed it at first glance since i made it a "California Stealth Edition" sensor. :D

So, have you found a source to get those sensors for less than $475 yet?

Ok got it connected now. I was on 91 octane and ran the gas tank low. I filled up on 12 gallons of E85. I drove for a few days and filled up another 12 gallons of E85 at ConserveFuel in Los Angeles. Here's the results:

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...edIMG_2798.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...edIMG_2799.jpg

Short video of the ECA in action

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Z...ent_548478.htm

Fantastic. Thanks for the update! I was kinda wondering about the quality there.

What does ConserveFuel tell you they are selling? IOW, were you fully expecting it to be E70?

:mitsu:

The guy at the register barely speaks english. So, i didn't bother asking {thumbdwn}

well.. The E70 is essentially the Tier III mix. aka winter blend. the question is how long it will take for the tanks at the station to come back up to E85

Er, i had the ECA wired incorrectly. I suck at electrical wiring. Anyways, I wired it correctly and its now reading E92 now. Here's the results and a short video of it in action:

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...edIMG_2798.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...edIMG_2799.jpg

Video in action

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Z...ent_548478.htm

Thanks Simon. Very slick. I will add the Ethanol Content Analyzer to my wish list.

Now, about that EVO owner bail out package. BWAHAHAHAAA!

:mitsu:

looks nice man. 92% doesn't sound right though, but that is pretty awesome if its correct. The best I have ever seen around here is 82%

Even if it does not read exactly it will still provide some type of baseline.

The ECA shows whatever the flex fuel sensor outputs. We have tested several FF sensors with benchmarked E blends, the sensors were within one point of a target. Our local E station had this E92-E93 for a while. The fuel does not even smell like gas anymore. I think Simon is still on high E blend from them.

how hard is it to install a flex fuel sensor? is this something you have to put inline or something you have to put in the tank? Maybe the ones who have installed one would help the community and create a how to thread.:D

also, doesn't the zt2 have a 5v user input? can't we use that to display what the ff sensor is reading?

It goes inline, most people stick it on the fuel return line. The zt2 does have a user input but the sensor doesn't output 0-5v analog so you need to convert it first. I had it set up that way for a while and it worked alright.

merkzu, right on the $. Flex fuel sensor has it's own way of outputting E% and fuel temp. This is where ECA gauge comes to play. The ECA has two 0-5V outputs for E% and fuel temperature.
Yes, the easiest way to mount the flex fuel sensor is in the return line, this way it's on the low pressure side of the system. Much safer, but still check for fuel leaks!

i see. thanks. has anyone tried this sensor? http://www.oehq.com/acdelco-parts_21...l%20Sensor.htm

Yes that is the GM flex fuel sensor, unfortunatly it costs over $400 after shipping, etc.

I see a used flex fuel sensor on ebay right now

any updates on special pricing for the flex fuel sensors?

We are working with the manufacture on a bulk flex fuel sensor purchase and we will pass savings to you.
The ECA is available now:
http://www.zeitronix.com/order/order.htm#ECA

About time!!!

But you will need to find the flexfuel sensor elsewhere until this bulk buy goes through. The ECA is for the display only.