My input on this is as follows:

Like Jack has said, not just anyone should tune cars (theirs or others) let alone charge for it. The fact the anyone can buy a cable and the software is free doesnt change the fact that the knowledge and time to build a proper map, test the map, log the map, and hopefully dyno the map all costs money to the tuner. Having come from a honda and DSM background I know lots about "tooners" versus tuners. The shady fly by night characters that are more than happy to take your money and leave you with little or no gain. I know seemingly respectable business that didnt offer much of a product (WRX days) for ALOT of money.

Alot of the problem is it is hard to quantify someones experience level. You cant prove or disprove easily (well sometimes you can) what someone really knows. For instance, I have taken the EFI101 class, been a mechanic (first paycheck as such was age 14...grampa and uncles shop)for as long as I can remember, and have been racing something with wheels since I was 5. Does this mean that I am really qualified? I cant prove that I am more qualified than anyone else however.

As far as taking responsibility for someone elses car, unless it was a situation where the car was new(ish) and there was every reason to believe it hadnt been abused beforehand then a failure is pretty easy to point fingers. This is why most respectable tuners have disclaimers against failure. They dont know how you treat your car and they dont really care. You have undertaken the responsibility of potential failure as soon as you change the first small detail of how it runs. When WRX's used to detonate gearboxes like it was going out of style I can remember a few tuners and dynos that said if it breaks on the dyno its still your fault not ours.

Anyone that decides to use someone else, whether its an established company or someone that now has the ability, needs to remember: USE AT OWN RISK, FAILURE POSSIBLE WHEN MODIFIED BEYOND STOCK.

my 3 cents anyway.

 

I go to car shows and secretly set peoples AFRs to 16:1 and their rev limiters to 1100 rpm. Tee hee hee.

 

The way I see it is if I give people maps and they can see who does what they can learn from that and they get better and give back to everyone else. I am prob going to spend 4-500$ on dyno time just to learn but It is well worth it and just like investing no one does it better then yourself as long as you have the knowledge. Just like no one knows your car better then you, not some 30min dyno tuning hack called a tuner because he has a notebook and a flasher.

 

How else are you going to learn? I mean, go for it, honda guys been doing this for ages.

I agree that you shouldn't use other people's car as a guinea pig for you learn how to tune, but if they're stupid enough to let you tune without knowing how good you are at tune, maybe they need to learn the lesson the hard way.

 

lol, not another one of these threads.... we needa focus more time on getting databases up for easy access, that way there will be more of us "tuners" out there and less "tooners"

 

^^^Tru

 

In regards to proprietary maps, i think it is morally wrong to take a vendors map and sell it as your own. unfortunately i do not think the vendors have any legal recourse as all maps and software in relations to the evo ecu is technically Mitsubishi's. To be honest I would highly question if vendors out there are paying royalty fees to Mitsubishi everytime they sell a tune or a flash to a customer. So as much as its immoral to sell a vendors map as your own, vendors can cry but they will not get anywhere in a lawsuit.

To sum it up, you are not paying for a vendors custom map, just the service to get the maps installed.

 

ill go with that. immoral? yes. preventable? maybe.

 

Thanks for resurrecting this thread, I dont think we talked enough about it last 4 times this subject came up.