As far as Works is concerened - if you may recall THEY are the ones who claimed that individually tuning any car was a complete waste of time and counterproductive

In a previous "white paper" they claimed that a one size fits all "master flash" was crucial to obtaining good results

When I have time I aill try and find it

 

Thats actually a good point, I remember reading that on their website a few years back...

Did you try Mitsulogger? Or are you using Evoscan to also log AFR which mitsulogger doesn't do yet? I don't know who's using my tools and who isn't at this point.. LOL

 

I was on the fence, but now I've decided: I'm going to throw out my Tactrix cable, and have Works do one of their magic flashes for me. I swear, if someone asked me to leave the room during a tune, I'd tell them to go screw themselves. It's MY car and I wouldn't blindly trust someone not to mess it up. It's such a shame how all these tuners have to deal with educated customers now. I feel so bad for them.

This reminds me of my early Z car days. SuperChips released an EEPROM for the 300ZX twin turbo. Another tuner did a byte to byte comparison to a stock ROM and found that the only thing they did was change one single byte (the speed limiter cal). They had claimed to have changed timing and fuel maps to allow you to run more boost, etc. Friggin' thieves.


MJ: I'm looking forward to using your program more, but still dreaming about getting integrated AFR logging and maptracing.

Evo4Mad: How about you quietly share your copy of the MUT-III software with Jack?

 

It took awhile for me to figure out the MUT portion after seeing what the conversation looked like, and a sample of the slow init, my original code was based loosely on the sample project provided by FTDI. Very earlly on, all of the original MUT findings were posted up on OpenECU, many of those original posts have been removed and therefore would be difficult for anyone else to figure out without the tool. I Managed to save a copy of those threads before the relevent posts were edited.. Once i knew the conversation, and got a single request to work, it just went from there.

I'd love to own a MUT-III, But I already have a T20 laptop, and know who manufactures the passthrough device that Mitsubishi uses, I can't see that the software is worth $3000 of the $4000 price tag..

I understand that we are indirectly competing because the tools perform similar tasks, and he obviously can't share with the enemy, and I can respect that. I just wish the whole open-source thing had panned out with his original code, I think as a team the software could have come along further than two parallel efforts. I also respect that he wants to make a few dollars, and I prefer to contribute to the community as a whole by offering it for free. I have been seriously considering posting the v1 source code but what I don't want is a million variations of the same program. So the new v2 architecture makes the relevent portions open source, and the portion that keeps the logging and consolidation consistent, is closed source.

Anyway, The only reason I have not put wideband support into the v1 code, is that I suspended working on that code and am doing a major rewrite of portions of the code in V2 to allow a more streamlined pluggable architecture. The Map Tracing is easy enough, but reading the data from one of 30 or so different roms where most have slightly different locations for the maps are the thing I've been holding off on doing. Logging the widebands is fairly easy, as most are just an incoming serial stream.. Only I am implementing the wideband features as a seperate component for two reasons, running in a seperate thread means it can log at the native rate of the hardware, and a common object can share the data, therefore slower devices like the TurboXS Tuner Pro will always have some sample of data, without slowing down the faster MUT logging.. and devices which are faster, are providing more information than what is usable with respect to the MUT logs..

I think I'll start getting some new code ready for beta testing in the next 2 weeks or so.. I decided to rewrite the MUT logger to use a serial port instead of FTDI directly, it reduces conflicts with other devices, and allows you to use any simple ISO Protocol converter and not just the tactrix cable. The only complication is it requires the end-user to figure out which com port the tactrix cable is on...

 

MalibuJack, can an excisting flash be saved before tuning is started... kinda like a back up file,in case I screw up one of your tunes? and then be flashed back into the computer.
Say something I would have done to my own tune, and caused the car not to start ect...
Thanks,
Jeff

 

yes. infact the first thing you should do when you d/l your rom is save it as a read only file, that way you can never modifiy it by accident.

 

Thanks bud
I come from the world Electromitive Tec3 and there is no saving someone else's bin file
So thanks for the info.

 

get a load of this folks, they apparently have a David V from a Viral Marketing group trying to offset the damage now:

http://www.norcalevo.net/index.php?o...opic=14025.new

lol!

 

I nearly fell off of my couch when he was talking about the Rom size and tables

Good reponse though

 

That's right... the same DavidV that helped start WORKS way back in 2002. Check the date on the web page you are quoting in the other thread (5 years old!).

Am I a marketing guy? Sure. Does most of the Evo community still remember me as the person they used to talk to by phone/email/in person back in 2003-2004 when I was the Marketing/PR Director at WORKS? No doubt.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ghlight=davidv

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ghlight=davidv

Nothing very viral or subversive about that.

-- DavidV

 

Dave, I remember you, and probably have spoken to you over the years.. But these are internet forums, Your only as memorable as your last few posts in this world..

I do consider myself somewhat knowledgable about the ECU and some of its inner working and tuning. Certainly not an expert, but I have enough experience to know where I would stand.

I think for me, the issue was never their products, just the assertion that a third party tool is not very good compared to the MUT tool.. Anyone who has worked with the MUT tool realizes that its not very good for tuning either. The difference is the logging tools are built for a specific purpose and uses the same exact data available to the MUT tool.

Honestly though, the diagnostic data from the ECU is of limited value anyway, sure, its nice to see what the ECU sees and what its doing, but I rely very heavily on my ECU+ for data. I use the MUT protocol (and my logger) mostly to correlate data such as knock sum and calculated load, with the ECU+ logs. FWIW I've gotten good enough looking at the ECU+ logs that I don't really need to log with mitsulogger, but I do it so its easier to find the load sites I need to work in.

I think in your case, its cool that you jumped in and made your points, but I think it backfired somewhat.

 

eh... i posted this in the norcal forum but it got deleted.

in the end... works wants how many pats on the back for buying very expensive tool?

what are they doing that is so great?

what do they make? REALLY MAKE? and what then comes of those products? (the tuning surely is really their creation)

touting that you bought said expensive tool way back in the daisy and you were the first one to have it and what not... that gets old. in the 6 months that open source ecuflash has been out it's birthed evoscan and mitsulogger.

if what works is doin' is so great... why is there such stagnation in progress when there is obviously a NEED for better stuff... basic stuff like wideband integration, map tracing etc ad nauseum. come ON... these are things that even the ENTHUSIASTS started to notice, question and then DEMAND PROGRESS TO SOLVE as SOON as steps were revealed. no one here is a self designated engineer devoting their life to making cars fast... *AHEM*

this says two things... works never had such insight, never had any desire to create something better and in the end... never did done do nada.

it's nice that they made the hardware investment years ago so they could be the first ones on the block to move money... now we're past that... we've evolved in our understanding and in our resources. game's changed... works where you at??? <.< >.> i no see....

in a world like the automotive aftermarket you gotta be ready to roll with the punches... pick up and run with it... and most important, at ANY time bend over and kiss your own *** goodbye.

there's just too much cliche, too much irony and too much citing of this and that while not addressing the whole picture. in the end i DO take issue with works's products... mostly cuz they're not works's. mcr is a reknowned tuner in japan, they make fast cars and that's the ARTFORM that they've dedicated themselves to. they don't always use their own parts... but they don't call it their own either. their philosophy is open and simple, bring the best parts together from different companies and have one company make a bad *** car.

in the end from works i see less of a bad *** car and more of a marketing for parts.

i wanna be done wtih talkin'a bout this and earlyapex has put up a few "case studies" now that just really do end the discussion

http://www.norcalevo.net/index.php?o...&topic=14217.0

http://www.norcalevo.net/index.php?o...&topic=14201.0

 

Hehe, I RARELY travel outside the forums I'm comfortable with to make rebuttal but I felt it was relly important to clear up a few things..

I think your signature sums it all up though..



"The value in open-source is in propagating knowledge, not in making computing safer or easier for a naive end-user or business consumer."

 

^ i love this guy's values. PROPAGATING KNOWLEDGE. this is what automotive enthusiasm should be all about... grassroots, pooling data, accumulating intellectual capital across all boundaries trying to provide, create and disseminate the BEST product/tool/service possible to as many informed customers/users/patrons/FRIENDS as possible.

 

I quoted that from Codgi's signature.. But how true it is..

I come from the old school.. I'm not talking about the early honda old school, I'm talking about the 60's and 70's muscle car old school, where innovation was all about testing the limits, creating your own solutions to problems, breaking things, and laughing about it. But it was always about a bunch of people sharing the ideas they have, and how they came up with them.

I started losing interest in the muscle car scene when I started seeing all the high-dollar pro-touring and pro-street cars that were being built professionally for customers, and the customers were just turning the key and going, with little or no concept or appreciation for what it is they are driving.. When I started getting interested in Imports, (an 82 Mazda RX-7 I bought in 1990) I saw the same creativity and enthusiasm...

There will always be the high dollar parts, and "Take a wad of cash and throw it at a builder/car and take your results home" And its great that there are a few cars pushing the limits and getting the word out there that our cars are not a Stereotypical Movie Joke..

Unfortunately, I see the same problem with some of these cars, their getting built by these amazing shops, for owners who have done very little or no work to their own cars.. And you have very little sharing of knowledge.... This is of no value to the community, and ultimately this will hurt everyone.

A true enthusiast appreciates a difference of opinion
A true enthusiast Learns from all of his own experiences
A true enthusiast works and builds his own cars
A true enthusiast will drop everything to help another enthusiast
A true enthusiast will share his knowledge with everyone who needs it..

I'm sure I can add dozens more..

A true enthusiast is NOT someone who shows up at every meet and outing, or is constantly buying and swapping parts, or is constantly paying someone to tune their car when they can do it themselves.

I rarely socialize at meets, I rarely get my car on the dyno, I do buy parts, but I don't buy them because of what others have done, but only after doing careful research on whether its feasable to buy it, or do it myself.. But I do all of my own work, and only pay others to do the kind of work where I might be a danger to myself if I attempted it...

True, its about having a community where you can spend time and socialize, but its more than that, but its not all about the Nopi Lifestyle and getting with chicks, I guess you really don't realize that until your hormones aren't as boosted as your turbos..