How much boost on pump gas do you run?
I'm not a tuner by any means, just tune my own car but I would say be liberal on the boost and aggressive with the fuel, then set the timing accordingly. If running racegas or methanol you don't want to push the turbo out of it's efficiency too much, whatever that is - 30 psi?, but when adding timing the knock threashold should be close to where it's optimal. My settup tapers to about 25 at redline
Here I'll specify. 21-22psi (varying slightly by gear) 3076. From naught to when I decide I don't want to float a valve into a piston.
Is that better? lol! I agree with both of you.
A simple peak, and hold in the description is ALOT of information. Compared to a single number. I'm much more inclined to agree with being used to bigger turbos tho.
Hell, I ran 28psi on a 14b in the DSM. Didn't hold it even with cams, cyclone, and an AVCR doing its nastiest. Sh** fell off like a stone around 6k. Tapering to 16 by 9k.
Actually was on coated pistons and pump gas. I ran it fat. stock timing.
Is that better? lol! I agree with both of you.
A simple peak, and hold in the description is ALOT of information. Compared to a single number. I'm much more inclined to agree with being used to bigger turbos tho.
Hell, I ran 28psi on a 14b in the DSM. Didn't hold it even with cams, cyclone, and an AVCR doing its nastiest. Sh** fell off like a stone around 6k. Tapering to 16 by 9k.
Actually was on coated pistons and pump gas. I ran it fat. stock timing.
I'm not a tuner by any means, just tune my own car but I would say be liberal on the boost and aggressive with the fuel, then set the timing accordingly. If running racegas or methanol you don't want to push the turbo out of it's efficiency too much, whatever that is - 30 psi?, but when adding timing the knock threashold should be close to where it's optimal. My settup tapers to about 25 at redline
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
BTW, my brothers car is running a STOCK EVO9 turbo right now. He has Stages 1-4, BR Race FMIC, two mufflers on his car too, the AEM EMS. 93 octane and 30-32 psi daily.
I think you cant read Dave's statements and just think you can run crazy high boost. But it should show you something. Don't be stuck in your ways, don't always think you can only run 22lbs on 91oct. Just know there is different methods and that some work for some cars and other work for other cars. Maybe car A will make more power with somewhat crazy boost (3-4lbs more then normal, Not 8-12lbs more then normal) and low timing. And car B will make more with reg. boost level and regular/higher timing. What determines this is many different variables, including V.E., cam timing, turbo efficiency, etc., etc.
Just be safe in testing different methods.
An old timer with a 10.5 hotside (stock 2004 VIII). Used to taper to about 22 psi even with added WGA preload, using a stronger spring alltogether eliminated the taper termendously. Even though it's not too efficient that high up in rpms, the added 2 or 3 psi is significant
I saw that thread too. Like 99gst said, that car had mods that increased VE and the AEM setup. But if you all remember mike1023, didnt he post a video of him running like 29lbs on pump gas on the stock ECU (in the super cold)?? dudical26 arnt you friends wit him??
I think you cant read Dave's statements and just think you can run crazy high boost. But it should show you something. Don't be stuck in your ways, don't always think you can only run 22lbs on 91oct. Just know there is different methods and that some work for some cars and other work for other cars. Maybe car A will make more power with somewhat crazy boost (3-4lbs more then normal, Not 8-12lbs more then normal) and low timing. And car B will make more with reg. boost level and regular/higher timing. What determines this is many different variables, including V.E., cam timing, turbo efficiency, etc., etc.
Just be safe in testing different methods.
I think you cant read Dave's statements and just think you can run crazy high boost. But it should show you something. Don't be stuck in your ways, don't always think you can only run 22lbs on 91oct. Just know there is different methods and that some work for some cars and other work for other cars. Maybe car A will make more power with somewhat crazy boost (3-4lbs more then normal, Not 8-12lbs more then normal) and low timing. And car B will make more with reg. boost level and regular/higher timing. What determines this is many different variables, including V.E., cam timing, turbo efficiency, etc., etc.
Just be safe in testing different methods.
Although I never saw a log to see what kind of timing or knock he was getting. Although running that much boost on pump gas and things can't last that long.
You have to also realize that those cars that Dave Buschur mentioned are running AEM. How safe were they tuned? The knock detection on an AEM is nowhere close to as complex as the stock ECU. You can customize the knock correction any way you want to or disable it entirely.
That's one of the reason's DB uses AEM so much. He wants speed density and he doesn't want the stock ECU knock protection. I think the latter is the most important. If you can't tune it to 30 psi on a stock ECU, don't throw an AEM at it as a band-aid to avoid the knock control.
Simply put, to run 30 psi on a stock turbo on 93 octane, you would have to retard the timing significantly and you wouldn'y gain any more power than running less boost and more timing. Unless of course, you create your own knock pretection with an AEM, etc, and run it with a load of knock. It may make a ton of power, but how long will it last?
Anyway, I won't say anymore, because I know DB will come in here, read these threads and just start arguing otherwise, and I don't feel like dealing with one of those threads.
To settle this 30 psi on pump gas debate, tell DB to throw the stock ECU in the car and send us a log. Let's see how much knock is there then and how retarded the timing will be.
Eric
That's one of the reason's DB uses AEM so much. He wants speed density and he doesn't want the stock ECU knock protection. I think the latter is the most important. If you can't tune it to 30 psi on a stock ECU, don't throw an AEM at it as a band-aid to avoid the knock control.
Simply put, to run 30 psi on a stock turbo on 93 octane, you would have to retard the timing significantly and you wouldn'y gain any more power than running less boost and more timing. Unless of course, you create your own knock pretection with an AEM, etc, and run it with a load of knock. It may make a ton of power, but how long will it last?
Anyway, I won't say anymore, because I know DB will come in here, read these threads and just start arguing otherwise, and I don't feel like dealing with one of those threads.
To settle this 30 psi on pump gas debate, tell DB to throw the stock ECU in the car and send us a log. Let's see how much knock is there then and how retarded the timing will be.
Eric
Last edited by l2r99gst; Nov 13, 2007 at 07:48 PM.