The "Ive upgraded my injectors and I still have niggling issues" Thread
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,486
Likes: 67
From: Melbourne, Australia
The "Ive upgraded my injectors and I still have niggling issues" Thread
Righto - hopefully this will become of use to other ppl 
So I put FIC1050's into my EvoIX (all stock except for exhaust).
1) I never remember seeing exhaust smoke when WOT'ing, no I do see a lot of smoke, like its too rich, LC1 is reading 11.5 (yes calibrated many many times)
2) RPM overrun + slight TPS jab = exhaust popping. I presume this is ****ing the cat/exhaust over so I want to fix it.
Now when I installed the injectors I did the following in terms of ECU work.
1) set the scaling (1083)
2) setting the latencies
--- by doing the above 2 my trims are basically perfect (+1% each)
3) Halved Startup Enrichment IPW Adder table
4) Retuned the AFR map, I should be no richer than 11.3 AFR
Now my question is do I need to modify any other maps for the overrun popping? Like an accelerator enrichment table??
Also when you guys are WOT'ing do you see exhaust smoke? Perhaps I just never noticed it b4!!!
Cheers
D.
So I put FIC1050's into my EvoIX (all stock except for exhaust).
1) I never remember seeing exhaust smoke when WOT'ing, no I do see a lot of smoke, like its too rich, LC1 is reading 11.5 (yes calibrated many many times)
2) RPM overrun + slight TPS jab = exhaust popping. I presume this is ****ing the cat/exhaust over so I want to fix it.
Now when I installed the injectors I did the following in terms of ECU work.
1) set the scaling (1083)
2) setting the latencies
--- by doing the above 2 my trims are basically perfect (+1% each)
3) Halved Startup Enrichment IPW Adder table
4) Retuned the AFR map, I should be no richer than 11.3 AFR
Now my question is do I need to modify any other maps for the overrun popping? Like an accelerator enrichment table??
Also when you guys are WOT'ing do you see exhaust smoke? Perhaps I just never noticed it b4!!!
Cheers
D.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,486
Likes: 67
From: Melbourne, Australia
Closed loop.
Looking at a log (which I think is of it happening) my AFR's are 14.7 before the TPS jab, 14 during the "jab" and then 17 immediatley after the jab and then 13 a bit after that.
For a popping to occur does it have to be richer? ie getting unburnt fuel?
Looking at a log (which I think is of it happening) my AFR's are 14.7 before the TPS jab, 14 during the "jab" and then 17 immediatley after the jab and then 13 a bit after that.
For a popping to occur does it have to be richer? ie getting unburnt fuel?
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 6
From: UK
You'll be in open loop on over-run - you can tell if you change the fuel map contents from 14.7 it will switch to whatever you have there on over-run and revert to 14.7 (no matter what the cell contects) when you go back into closed loop.
Depending on the position of your wideband and how fast it reacts, you could be missing or seeing a delayed lean spike on tip in so it might be an acceleration enrichment issue. On a Subaru where I could adjust the accel enrichment on an aftermarket ECU I found that a 17 would give a lean misfire, richer than a 10 during tip in and it would bog but not pop, but your mileage may vary.
If by a jab you mean you are then holding the throttle and it runs significantly leaner than stoich at any point during or after the increase in throttle then I think you're too lean.
Bez put up some tables before for this IIRC when we were talking about speed density - there is an asynchronous injection on tip in that can be adjusted.
It can get confusing with delayed sensor readings, misfires, unburnt fuel etc. I don't know if the accel enrichments are scaled on the main injector size or not. However, I usually find engines tend to be more tolerant of being rich than lean in terms of response to throttle transients.
Depending on the position of your wideband and how fast it reacts, you could be missing or seeing a delayed lean spike on tip in so it might be an acceleration enrichment issue. On a Subaru where I could adjust the accel enrichment on an aftermarket ECU I found that a 17 would give a lean misfire, richer than a 10 during tip in and it would bog but not pop, but your mileage may vary.
If by a jab you mean you are then holding the throttle and it runs significantly leaner than stoich at any point during or after the increase in throttle then I think you're too lean.
Bez put up some tables before for this IIRC when we were talking about speed density - there is an asynchronous injection on tip in that can be adjusted.
It can get confusing with delayed sensor readings, misfires, unburnt fuel etc. I don't know if the accel enrichments are scaled on the main injector size or not. However, I usually find engines tend to be more tolerant of being rich than lean in terms of response to throttle transients.
Last edited by jcsbanks; Sep 1, 2008 at 05:50 AM.
This is what Bez sent me regarding Accell enrichment:
Originally Posted by Bez
But at the beginning stage U could use the patch I send before - but you need the accell enrichment to correct. I found the real acell enrichment tables and how it works in evo-I will use stock acell enrichment in my patch-so U can tune these tables right now.
add this to your xml-I spend ~1.5 hours finding the exact adresses 4 your definition..
<table name="Asynch_Acell_Enrichment" category="Fuel" address="1254" type="2D" level="1" scaling="uint16">
<table name="X" type="Static Y Axis" elements="5">
<data>pause_period</data>
<data>min_TPSdelta</data>
<data>Max_pulsewidth</data>
<data>idle_TPSRange</data>
<data>after_engine_start_addition</data>
</table>
</table>
<table name="Asynch_VS_TPSDELTA" category="Fuel" address="32b6" type="2D" level="1" scaling="uint8">
<table name="X" type="Static Y Axis" elements="9">
<data>0</data>
<data>1</data>
<data>2</data>
<data>3</data>
<data>4</data>
<data>5</data>
<data>6</data>
<data>7</data>
<data>8</data>
</table>
</table>
<table name="Asynch_TPS(Rpm) Limit" category="Fuel" address="32c6" type="2D" level="1" scaling="WGDuty">
<table name="X" address="6c26" type="Y Axis" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
<table name="Asynch_Accel_vsRPM" category="Fuel" address="32e4" type="2D" level="1" scaling="uint8">
<table name="X" address="6c26" type="Y Axis" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
Heres mine examle of altering enrichment - left WAS -right - NOW (see .jpg)
Briefly
1 table
Pause period - TPS dynamics measurement cycle (shorter -faster) It measures TPS and copares it to OLD TPS value
min TPSDLTA - the minimum encrease of ADC value to recognise enrichment (TPS-OLDTPS) shoud be > TPSDELTA
Max Pulsewidth - total maxium enrichment pulsewidth
Idle tpsrange - the range withn wich the enrichment will work.
after engine start addition - the asynch PW constantly used within first ~5 seconds of engine started.
Asynch vs TPS - the amount of enrichment added for each point of tps difference.
Asynch_TPS(Rpm) Limit The TPS(RPM) above wich the enrichment will not be added
Asynch_Accel_vsRPM the general enrichment -Limits max total enrichment vs RPM - in newer ecu its an addition to some value)
these params exists on evo all ecus..The adressses could vary.
To log FPULSE2 (asynch injpulse) RAM:FFFF6D08 FPULSE2 i give U the ref 2 its adress 4 your ecu
add this to your xml-I spend ~1.5 hours finding the exact adresses 4 your definition..
<table name="Asynch_Acell_Enrichment" category="Fuel" address="1254" type="2D" level="1" scaling="uint16">
<table name="X" type="Static Y Axis" elements="5">
<data>pause_period</data>
<data>min_TPSdelta</data>
<data>Max_pulsewidth</data>
<data>idle_TPSRange</data>
<data>after_engine_start_addition</data>
</table>
</table>
<table name="Asynch_VS_TPSDELTA" category="Fuel" address="32b6" type="2D" level="1" scaling="uint8">
<table name="X" type="Static Y Axis" elements="9">
<data>0</data>
<data>1</data>
<data>2</data>
<data>3</data>
<data>4</data>
<data>5</data>
<data>6</data>
<data>7</data>
<data>8</data>
</table>
</table>
<table name="Asynch_TPS(Rpm) Limit" category="Fuel" address="32c6" type="2D" level="1" scaling="WGDuty">
<table name="X" address="6c26" type="Y Axis" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
<table name="Asynch_Accel_vsRPM" category="Fuel" address="32e4" type="2D" level="1" scaling="uint8">
<table name="X" address="6c26" type="Y Axis" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
Heres mine examle of altering enrichment - left WAS -right - NOW (see .jpg)
Briefly
1 table
Pause period - TPS dynamics measurement cycle (shorter -faster) It measures TPS and copares it to OLD TPS value
min TPSDLTA - the minimum encrease of ADC value to recognise enrichment (TPS-OLDTPS) shoud be > TPSDELTA
Max Pulsewidth - total maxium enrichment pulsewidth
Idle tpsrange - the range withn wich the enrichment will work.
after engine start addition - the asynch PW constantly used within first ~5 seconds of engine started.
Asynch vs TPS - the amount of enrichment added for each point of tps difference.
Asynch_TPS(Rpm) Limit The TPS(RPM) above wich the enrichment will not be added
Asynch_Accel_vsRPM the general enrichment -Limits max total enrichment vs RPM - in newer ecu its an addition to some value)
these params exists on evo all ecus..The adressses could vary.
To log FPULSE2 (asynch injpulse) RAM:FFFF6D08 FPULSE2 i give U the ref 2 its adress 4 your ecu
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Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,486
Likes: 67
From: Melbourne, Australia
yeah I was looking at that yesterday.
I did some logging last night of one of the ACCEL_TPS variables but nothing came out... Will do some more looking today.
I did some logging last night of one of the ACCEL_TPS variables but nothing came out... Will do some more looking today.
Your tip in seems lean. I had problems with it popping when I was still sorting out enrichment values on the Pro. But I was tipping in in the 10's.
It went BANG, not pop.
Mine seems to like tip in, in the 12's for maybe a half second or less. Then trimming back up to 14.7, or if you roll in harder it falls to the desired AF ratio.
It went BANG, not pop.
Mine seems to like tip in, in the 12's for maybe a half second or less. Then trimming back up to 14.7, or if you roll in harder it falls to the desired AF ratio.
Originally Posted by tephra
mmm I will get some proper logs tonight... Been logging other crap which makes getting a good resolution hard
Originally Posted by tephra
For a popping to occur does it have to be richer? ie getting unburnt fuel?