Weird issue at idle and cruising! Not the common one you always see. Please read!
May 18, 2009, 12:35 PM
#16
well, if you are running fine in open loop it sounds like it can only be 1 of 3 things:
-giant air leak (should cause rich instead of lean).
-Tuning issues / you are repeatedly messing up something in the rom (unlikely, but you could have screwed something up. Start with a fresh rom and only change your injector scaling and latency, see if the same thing still happens)
-O2 feedback / narrowband sensor dying. Seems like the most likely culprit, no?
-giant air leak (should cause rich instead of lean).
-Tuning issues / you are repeatedly messing up something in the rom (unlikely, but you could have screwed something up. Start with a fresh rom and only change your injector scaling and latency, see if the same thing still happens)
-O2 feedback / narrowband sensor dying. Seems like the most likely culprit, no?
If Closed Loop enabled, the car will gradually continue to push the trims very negative until becomes undriveable and/or throw a P0172. If Closed Loop disabled, you will noticed the super rich conditions no matter what you do to the latencies/scaling or MAF scaling.
I checked for boost leaks and could not find any.
I tried my last backup rom and some others that are known good ones and still have the same situation.
O2 feedback: In order to rule that one out, I will need to buy and replaced the O2 with a new one. However, the car have the problem even if closed loop is disabled.
Your BOV needs a vacuum/boost source, not just a boost source. So, maybe you mis-typed when you said you source your BOV from your LICP.
Also, since you just changed to a Buschur LICP, what other parts did you just recently change?
If the car is going super rich, with negative trims, then to me that sounds like either (a) the MAF is telling the ECU there is more air entering than there is, (b) all of the metered air isn't reaching the cylinders because of a vacuum/boost leak somewhere (maybe BOV issue), or (c) like you mentioned, something really wrong with your injectors.
I would tend to lean towards a or b, mostly b, especially if you just changed some parts and vacuum lines/routing. Make sure your BOV is connected properly and all lines that you have just changed are secure and not leaking.
Also, since you just changed to a Buschur LICP, what other parts did you just recently change?
If the car is going super rich, with negative trims, then to me that sounds like either (a) the MAF is telling the ECU there is more air entering than there is, (b) all of the metered air isn't reaching the cylinders because of a vacuum/boost leak somewhere (maybe BOV issue), or (c) like you mentioned, something really wrong with your injectors.
I would tend to lean towards a or b, mostly b, especially if you just changed some parts and vacuum lines/routing. Make sure your BOV is connected properly and all lines that you have just changed are secure and not leaking.
I will double check the BOV for any leaks and installation.
There were two additions to the car since I dynoed it... the red and the LICP which forced me to re-route the vacuum/boost source. I just can not recall if the new LICP was already in the car when I dynoed or not. That would rule out if the LICP is part of the things that were changed when the car started to act up. The car was in two towers for about 2-3 months due to travel at work and parts availibility.
May 18, 2009, 07:17 PM
#17
Evolved Member
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Northern KY near Cincy
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
The T in the BOV source sound fishy to me. Run a line directly from the intake manifold to the BOV.
Use the boost source to go to the BC. Then from the BC to the waste gate actuator.
Keeping them seperate will offer better response for both.
Use the boost source to go to the BC. Then from the BC to the waste gate actuator.
Keeping them seperate will offer better response for both.
May 23, 2009, 03:19 PM
#18
Update:
1. Tried a known working BOV and the car still doing the same.
2. Installed a vaccum/boost block to eliminate all the Ts around the IM and BOV. Did a boost leak test and everthing seems to be right on spot.
3. Tried a fresh stock rom and just ported only the needed stuff to start the car (Latencies, Scaling, Immo, etc) just to rule out a corrupted rom.
The car still doing the same. I am leaning towards an electrical or electronic issue. The car idles fine but goes very rich after TB lift-off.
I am running out of ideas! I will be looking to get new injectors as those are the only thing that I can think off may be related to this issue.
I am open to any other ideas!
1. Tried a known working BOV and the car still doing the same.
2. Installed a vaccum/boost block to eliminate all the Ts around the IM and BOV. Did a boost leak test and everthing seems to be right on spot.
3. Tried a fresh stock rom and just ported only the needed stuff to start the car (Latencies, Scaling, Immo, etc) just to rule out a corrupted rom.
The car still doing the same. I am leaning towards an electrical or electronic issue. The car idles fine but goes very rich after TB lift-off.
I am running out of ideas! I will be looking to get new injectors as those are the only thing that I can think off may be related to this issue.
I am open to any other ideas!
May 25, 2009, 10:55 PM
#19
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: seattle
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im actually having similar issues. My car is pig rich at idle and at cruise, like in the 10's. This started happening 2 days ago after I tried to change my "x" and "y" axis in my fuel and timing maps. Stupid I know, but even when I changed it back to the map before, It still does the same.
I spoke to some people and everyone comes back to a fuel problem. From my 255lph walbaro, to my fuel regulator. I'm getting very annoyed of this car.
I spoke to some people and everyone comes back to a fuel problem. From my 255lph walbaro, to my fuel regulator. I'm getting very annoyed of this car.
May 26, 2009, 07:14 PM
#20
Registered User
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MD/PA line
Posts: 2,324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My car is doing the same thing. Swapping out 02 sensors tomorrow. I'll let you know if it helps. It's so annoying. I understand where your coming from man.
jason
jason
Jun 2, 2009, 01:27 PM
#25
Got it! I am also leaning that the root cause may be a faulty/leaky injector(s).
I have tried numerous of tests and all came back good. I am looking for the stock injectors to rule this one out and just can not remember where I place them. Oh well!
I have tried numerous of tests and all came back good. I am looking for the stock injectors to rule this one out and just can not remember where I place them. Oh well!
Jul 1, 2009, 08:15 PM
#27
Well! I disabled closed loop and tried to tune the idle/cruise section to compensate the drastic change from very rich to stoich in a snap causing the erratic portion of the idle->cruise. After doing that, I improved the MPG over the closed loop. BTW, I am running the SD patch.
I still need to get some injectors and possibly replace the resistor box to be able to rule out anything related to fuel injectors.
I still need to get some injectors and possibly replace the resistor box to be able to rule out anything related to fuel injectors.
Aug 30, 2009, 06:09 PM
#28
Swapped injectors and still the same. Crap!
Update!
Today, I swapped the injectors to the OEM ones to see if the rich condition persists. I was in shock to notice that the DAMN situation is happening with the OEM injectors as well.
After close monitoring of the AFRs, I noticed that the rich condition happens only when the car is at vacuum. Once the car is very close to atmosphere or pressurized, the rich condition immidiately jump to the "expected" value in the AFR. For example.... If I was expecting a 13.5 at any specific load/rpm (this is based on my experience with the car), the car would run like 10.9-11.1 AFR just before 0 (Atmosphere) and suddenly jump to the expected value of around 13.5 in an instant after crossing the 0 on my boost gauge. I tried that in every gear and it is always the same; more pronounced on the higher gears and low loads.
What may be causing a RICH condition only on vacuum?
Not sure what should I be looking for to find the root cause of this situation. Any ideas?
Today, I swapped the injectors to the OEM ones to see if the rich condition persists. I was in shock to notice that the DAMN situation is happening with the OEM injectors as well.
After close monitoring of the AFRs, I noticed that the rich condition happens only when the car is at vacuum. Once the car is very close to atmosphere or pressurized, the rich condition immidiately jump to the "expected" value in the AFR. For example.... If I was expecting a 13.5 at any specific load/rpm (this is based on my experience with the car), the car would run like 10.9-11.1 AFR just before 0 (Atmosphere) and suddenly jump to the expected value of around 13.5 in an instant after crossing the 0 on my boost gauge. I tried that in every gear and it is always the same; more pronounced on the higher gears and low loads.
What may be causing a RICH condition only on vacuum?
Not sure what should I be looking for to find the root cause of this situation. Any ideas?
Aug 30, 2009, 07:03 PM
#30
Evolved Member
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Northern KY near Cincy
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
Something has to be leaking somewhere. Vacuum leak check the heck out of the thing.
Have you disabled the EGR system? Messed with any of the EGR tables?
Sounds almost like you are just not getting enough air at idle. Have you tried a BISS adjustment?
Have you disabled the EGR system? Messed with any of the EGR tables?
Sounds almost like you are just not getting enough air at idle. Have you tried a BISS adjustment?