Good info 03.

Are you guys using the VD in evoscan to evaluate if you have improved or degraded torque, or it has been unchanged?

I am struggling a bit identifying any changes from a power standpoint since I don't have a dyno, and am road logging my changes. I see a pretty big variance from pull to pull. In fact the torque numbers are more different pull to pull than they tend to be between flashes.

Also, are you guys logging anything to identify when you switched to open loop?

 

Charlie, I have a map that shows target fuel AFR map and logs within .05 of each other. LS running mostly factory, only rescaled for my fuel map and target areas affected by lean spool. Suggestions say start with it (LS) shut off. Look at Lean Spool as A wrapper, The load threshold table acts as a start point to tune fuel for open loop or boost. Target your AFR Mapping table to start at these base values in these areas of your fuel map, which should be rich almost a full AFR point to begin with. So my table outside of cruise and idle, drops to 12.5 and continues rich to 10.1 roughly 120 load and above all. rpms, closly following stock appeal. So naturally, the AFR mapping table looks like this... ok, picture not working right now, ill just copy the values, insert them into a test rom and take a look.

13.07 = 13.1
11.76 = 11.9
11.07 = 11.3
10.9 = 11.2
10.8 = 11.1
10.45= 10.9
10.23 = 10.8

Lean spool is just another calculated adder to the base fuel map. If you utilize the Start, Stop, AFR Mapping, and Load threshold tables correctly, you can turn on and off lean spool where ever you need it, and adjust your fuel map accordingly, without hunting in the dark. Side note, the areas beween those scaling numbers in the AFR Mapping, will be calculated accordingly to follow the target slope, just like any other rescale you do. Also, Boosted Tuning has a post on here about rescaling your Target boost, and Base WGDC tables, and utilizing the 100% WGDC <load as a switch, and it works rather well. my spool improved a full 1k rpms, finally... but I have other issues.

Summation --> Get fuel tuning correct, Dial in boost, and the rest is what physical limitations tolerate. Hope I helped.

EDIT: Fireroasted: To your tables on your boost curve, even if you rescale them to have 500 and 1500 rpms, if you have 100% at 500, and then 80% at 2000. When will your target boost and WGDC get used in those areas, with the WGDC 100% < load table set above 100 load? What is yours set at, or how are you producing spool with WG open during low RPM?

 

a very good and accurate description on LS tuning from 03white.

 

Fireroasted, Ive been 100% open loop for a few months now dialing in SD. Im having some of the same issues with calculating hp/tq. I just added a couple degrees back into my low rpm spool up portion and now just focusing on getting a smooth fuel curve. Im done with trying to see small differences in VD.

Raceghost, Are you saying that youre seeing low 10 afr with LS disabled? Then you are using it to lean it out to where it should be? Im targetting low 11.0s. Do I need to be targetting a richer AFR if I plan to enable LS? I assumed it would lean it until a certain time as expired, then move to my normal low 11.0 afr...

Merlin, I agree. But I still cant get the total concept down. Its akin to getting instructions from these engineers here at work. They write info for people like themselves, not the thickheaded simple minds like me.

I'll start playing it with it soon to see what results I get.

Thanks everyone for the info.

 

Plus 2 for 03 whites suggested tuning practice with lean spool. Like I say, use it as the "Wrapper"to your nicely tuned fuel map, to hit those lean points you need.

Yes. starting at 120 load, from 500 to 4500, I drop right off cruise, to 12.5 in those cells, and taper to 300 load ending at 10.5 I think.
After 4500, in low load I start with a couple of 14.7's, but drop to mid 11's at 60-70 load, and am mid 10's my 150 load, and end at 10.1@ 300 loadx8500 rpm. I retuned the stock map, once I dialed in my injectors per merlins guide, I could hit 11.5 and hold to redline... Turn on lean spool and I hold 13.'s through spool, and 12's at red, causing massive heat, and al sorts off isues. So now that AFR is on, I follow mitsu's logic which run her rich for long reliable extended use in boost... So I retuned stock map to reflect the richest I wanted to go, which was 10.1, and used lean spool to enable above 130 load in low rpm, and taper down in load as rpm goes up. You can rescale the AFR mapping table to reflect, where in the fuel map you want it to hit, but once its on, its on, and is controlled by load, rpm switch, and afr map. Lean spool uses the AFR mapping table to lean it out by that scaling. You can set all your AFR mapping to only increase by .5 afr points, and if your Injectors are dialed in correctly, and MAF scaled correctly, you can watch your afr table, plus the adder/subtracter of lean spool, and watch your guage, and logs reflect the same. And yes, lean spool can add fuel too.

So by having your fuel map set correctly for richness, u then add the "Wrapper" effect of lean spool, and watch how close you can dial your power in and where. For a while I had it only come on at 2500 and shut off at 4750 like one of the factory maps has. PRELIMINARY Fuel and AIR first, then spool, boost, timing, and your always massaging the fuel map. This is of course if you are after long reliability and economy, with usable street power. And after saying that, I am still learning, and interpreting...

 

Ok so target a richer AFR, then bring it back with the afr mapping table. So you are basically tuning the fuel map for worst case scenario. Then making power with LS. When does it decide to go to the fuel map? Looking at the tables, I thought it was a time function. And it would be most effective in higher gears because of the fact you spend more time in the higher gears and that time expires earlier in the rpm range.

Are low 10s acceptable for the intial target afr? Seem really rich.

 

those 10's in high rpms become 11's, which in high rpms high boos, you want 11's.

In low rpm spool area, i have 12's tapering to high 10's, and using the lean spool afr mapping table, you can target the 12.5 or 12.2 for spool.

The Lean spool is enable and disabled by virtue of 3 or 4 supporting tables,
the lean spool start rpm
the lean spool stop rpm
the lean spool load vs rpm table
the lean spool clip value, which is a target afr, and if u set it 12.5, any where above 12.5 it will shut off as long as it is above that clip value, and will utilize the trailing times to re smooth afr back to table values, or target values minus the lean spool.

The trailing times, are used for how fast it hits, and how fast it goes away... trailing times are in milliseconds, so they may add a millisecond of latencie to the injectors, etc.

 

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...s-enabled.html

Thanks appauldd and 03.

 

Crap, I think I got lost in that part. I think I am missing or forgot a fundamental concept from when I did the ECU boost control many years ago. Someone slap me and help me figure out what Raceghost is trying to teach me.

 

I think he's just asking how you keep the WG closed. Do you do it with 100s in the wgdc map or with the "wgdc=100 under this load" table?

BTW...I enabled LS a few weeks back. LOVE it. Basically running 11.5 in 3rd and slightly richer in higher gears and leaner in lower gears. But....my trans hates it and now really needs a rebuild and/or swap. So Im pretty much done tuning for the year.

 

Fuel according to my advanced engine management book is used for torque control.

 

Why does your trans hate it. What exactly is the behavior? What clutch to you have, and are you certain you have the clutch perfectly adjusted so its not dragging even the tinniest amount?

So richer or leaner for more torque? What book are you reading?

 

SA advanced engine management . A lot of the stuff can be had on the forums but it has some math and other good info that is good to know.

I don't recall richer or leaner doing what .. I skimmed after I bought and I intend to get thoroughly thru it in a couple days

 

My trans issues are not 100% related to this, but Ive been hammering on it quite regularly enjoying the newfound low gear power and now my synchros are pretty much shot. Ive adjusted and lubed everything, replaced fluids, etc... and come to the conclusion that this 110k mi 6 spd that is way over its tq rating is just tired and needs a rebuild, upgrade, or swap. Ive been skipping 3rd for 3 weeks now and with jr on the way any day now, getting every ounce of hp from this thing is the least of my concerns.

Now that Im finally 95% happy with my tune, I'll be tearing into it this winter and have to redo the tune next spring. ugggh

 

it seems no matter where I eliminate knock more shows up and my ecu boost is not getting any feed back for some reason. The car feels stupid fast but doesn't dyno more than 400 djwhp on vd. Making a set of det cans is still on my list. I'm really just nervous about adjusting the knock sensor multiplier. But I will have to eventually at least look at it