Idle Control Problems
 

Hi Guys

I have seen a bunch of threads about people having issues with the Idle dropping to 500rpm and the car strugging to recover...

Most guys sat that the Idle Control Valve needs to be replaced

Some say it is a Vacuum soleniod somwhere

others say maybe its a boost leak or MAF scaling issue...


Im starting to also think its a Idle Control Valve, can the people who resolved their idle problems - please post their solution...


and also:

Is there a way to bypass the Idle Control Valve and force the idle not to drop say below 900rpm?


thanks
Sal
.

All of those could be the culprit. On my setup, Ive scaled the MAF per fuel trims, boost leak tested, replaced the ISCV, and its still there. I can get around the issue happening, it seems like its when my IX bov gets loaded up, then opens (I can hear it flutter), then idle drops.

Adjusting the BISS does bypass the iscv to a certain extent. But if you adjusted so far that it completely bypassed the iscv, the car will likely idle really high and possibly have an uncontrollable idle. would probably throw codes too. not ideal....

Im tossing a buddy's Greddy RS BOV on this afternoon, hoping that will fix the issue. Right now Ive got my idle rpm around 1000 and biss adjusted slightly on the high side. It typically idles around 1100, which is pretty annoying, but seems to have made my issue bearable until I can start troubleshooting mechanical stuff.

smoke test to see if a boost/vacuum leak could be the culprit

You can easily test the ISCV by unscrewing it, leaving the electrical connector plugged in and turning the car to "ON", the valve will click loudly and move in and out as it searches for the correct adjustment to keep the idle correct. If it doesn't move, it's bad, also there is an o-ring that seals it, if that goes bad or is missing that is definitely part of the problem.

I've never seen a way to bypass it and the BISS won't solve an issue with the ISCV.

arent the two relatively the same thing? Just one is static and the other is controlled by the ecu? to the op, I appologize if my response was incorrect. makes sense in my head, but so does alot of other senseless stuff.

SO theres no way to stop the idle from dropping below a certain point using Ecuflash...

I have a hunch its my ICV - I have checked everything else, made sure theres no boost leaks, removed EGR, etc... Will try removing the screw or unplugging it and see what happens.

.

since u have the EGR deleted, do you have the 2 nipples on the TB looped w/ a small vac. hose? I just figured out a couple days ago, that these 2 nipples need to be individually capped! I need to do this as well... check this thread
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...enoids-14.html

GL

I have the same exact same problem, but only when my AC is on. ISC is good, no leaks, all vac lines are attached. A while back I pulled the BISS, cleaned the port and the tip of the BISS (was real cruddy) and cleaned the ISC stepper valve and it idled fine.... for a while. Looks like I have to do it again. You may want to try that if you haven't yet.
Remember, you have to set the BISS when you reinstall it.

My thought was buildup would slowly block the BISS passage/tip to the point that the ISC couldn't bypass enough air to keep the idle raised.

Thats defiantly not gonna help.

nope didnt do that yet either...

.

lol.. you arent lying. Just got back in from messing with it. that thing is a POS. :lol: And had no effect on the issue. Figured it was worth a shot. Gotta get my compressor back in working order and boost leak test. I swear Ive tested before with this happening (going on close to 2.5 years) and have had the IC piping on and off several times since then and have leak tested since re-installing. Ive just been running the old school map-maf patch on V5.1 and its been masking the problem (been around a little longer than my screen name implies ;)). Recently trying out V7, and trying to run it normally without the xtra patch and the issue is back. If it isnt a boost leak, Im stumped. If fuel trims are in check, then maf scaling/smoothing is good, correct? Or are there hidden secrets out there that fuel trims wont tell? Any other mechanical problems that it could be? ISCV was replaced about 10k mi ago, all egr lines are intact (by feel of hand).


Mine is fine when rolling to a stop. Its when I try to lug it around the driveway or parking lot (gas, clutch out, move, boost hits close to 0, clutch in, 500 rpm) And that is only after Ive raised the idle, initial iscv steps, and adjusted the BISS. On the "stock" phenem rom, it had no chance of recovering by itself. The boost part is what made me think bov, and it flutters at anything under 3k rpm and goes super rich.

Sub'ed, I'm in a similar situation with my IX; idle drops to 500 and struggles to recover, sometimes it does, sometimes I give it gas to get it back up. Often happens during low-speed maneuvers (ie. parking in reverse).

Are you trying to use 9653 V7 or 9417 V7?

Im using 96530706. The very first time this ever happened was when I switched from the 96940011 to the 96530006 rom.

here is my first post about the issue in '08. Just been running the map-maf patch ever since and its been fine. Im really trying not to load that patch back on the car. I know its just masking the real problem. And I plan to go SD once I get V7 MAF running properly, so Im trying to eliminate any "extra" stuff.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...g-my-maps.html

fwiw, Im attempting to use as many "stock" settings (minus timing/fuel obviously) as I can in the phenem rom. The maps in that post are far from what it looks like now.

sal, sorry for the hijack. There really should be an stalling "mega-merge" in the stickies.

Cool - lets keep this thread going and we find somthing that works effectively...

.

Try 9417. It is a US ROM and need a lot less tweaking to make it idle correctly.

Also 9417 can be used on an 05 car, as I have tested it on an 05 car.

So give it a try, see if it works better for you. (but if you have messed with your BISS screw to try to fix 9653, you may need to readjust it when going to 9417. If you didnt adjust it, then you dont need to mess with it while using 9417)

^^ will do. thanks man. The only concern I have is support for SD on that rom as it doesnt currently look like there is a working SD option due to problems...

any truth to the "mushiness" as reported in the v7 thread?

I have spent 7 months tryign to fix this, too lazy to list the things i have tried.

in short all of them.

from BISS to SD conversion... car still stalls on decel when clutch goes in ..... it started when i drastically changed the fly wheel mass ( QM 7.25" twin clutch) from stock clutch..

Yeah, as of now, theres no 9417 V7 SD ROM. And dont know if there will be (but there should be)

The "mushiness" thing is a personal opinion IMHO. I didnt experience it when testing 9471 V7 and 9653 V7.

But there may be some truth to it, as 9653 may/probably has less code then 9417 (since it lacks emissions stuff), which in turn would make it so the ECU can do calculations quicker and give it a more "crisp" feeling, kinda like a standalone does.

Cant get the 9417 rom to start. I think I need the immob hex xml addition. But just for the heck of it, I loaded up my original 96940011 rom that I bought the car with. And put it through the same test Ive been doing to test settings on the 9653 rom. (back and forth in the driveway) The issue is NOWHERE near as bad. RPM drops to about 800-850 and come back somewhat quickly. That is with stock maf scaling, idle, etc. And its now got an ETS intake which I know doesnt like stock scaling. Almost positive it will run decent with some tuning.

What I dont get is why so many folks report no issues with the 9653 rom. Ive always have had them. Id really like to run it so its basically a lateral conversion to SD.

im dealing with the same problem i was thinking its the injectors?? its driving me crazy!

I think the only guys that arent having issues w/ that rom, are the guys that bought the car w/ a 9653 ecu. Im sure Some1 will correct me if Im wrong...
edit: the starting issue is most likely the immob. hex.

Is it just that once you go SD, these idling issues are gone? Like I said prior, when I was running the early map-maf patch, everything was fine.

Yeah, mostly you didnt have the immob hex right. Its year dependant. If your using the 9417 V7 .xml that Appauldd put together, then immob hex should be there and it will tell you what to enter for what year.

Yeah, some issues can be cured by using a US ROM on a US car.

And there was actually a lot of complaints against 9653, which is the reason me, appauldd and others pushed to have a 9417 V7 made.

wow. his xml is much more defined than the one in the tephra link. I figured the hex xml is all it was, just figured all we needed would be there in the download. Im gonna mess with it some today and see what I come up with. Also, take that craptastic greddy dv off of the car lol.

Im still having issues with it. But havent replaced the bov back to the IX yet. Today I plan to change it and do a boost leak test. It pretty much does it when the bov flutters at low rpm, WB shows rich, car stumbles down to 500 rpm.

I installed appauldd's 9417 rom, changed immob, copied fuel/timing, copied iscv (initial steps (WAY higher), stepper table, etc) stuff from my old stock rom, raised idle, adjusted BISS to ~900 rpm (I know a bit high), tuned MAF (LTFTs are within +/-1.5%). And FWIW, I also attempted it with stock values for everything and it stalled out everytime. With my "tuned" settings, it would drop to 500-600 and come back.

I am noticing a wierd issue Ive never had with any other rom...About every 10-15 seconds @ idle, it will go rich, idle drops, stumbles and comes back. Never seen that on the stock rom or the 9653 rom.

Are these also symptoms of some mechanical things? EGR? Ignition? MAF? O2? Ive got 85k on the clock.

And just to make sure I ask the question...When tuning the MAF, is relying on the fuel trims enough or do I need to run open loop and scale until I see what I want on the WB? Im pretty sure Ive seen the latter referenced around here, and just wandering if my "tuned" maf scaling is rust rubbish.

Changed back to the IX bov, cleaned maf, cleaned air filter. I did a boost leak test w/ TB open and w/ TB closed. I unhooked the pcv and it leaked a little. Took it off, cleaned in T-body cleaner and moved much more freely afterwards. Still have a leak coming from the motor out the valve cover(turbo seal or valve stem seals, rings?) But it takes a while to air down, no other visible or audible leaks @ 25 psi. Issue is still there after warming up. My car doesnt idle very good with the 9417 rom, almost sounds cammed lol. And Ive copied everything pertinent and tried default values. Going back to the 9653 rom in hopes of find a mechanical problem. :confused:

Charlie.tunah....what intake are you running?? Are you running cams too? What are your fuel trims? Did you mess with the MAF scaling? What is your idle RPM settings? Did you adjust the ISCV settings?

In short.....send me a copy of your rom along with a complete mod list. Also include a log of your car at idle.

Same screen name as here at g mail dot com.

I will get your car running well for you.

Paul

email sent. thanks man.

Charlie....I sent you an email. Try what I suggested and get back to me.

The lesson here is not to make too many changes at once AND.....before you attempt to "tune" anything, you must make sure your LTFTs are spot on.

Thanks for the help and advice. I'll check it out tonight. Need to review my log from the commute today and see if the LTFTs are changing. My co-workers think Im a nut bringing in my tuning laptop to my desk lol. The trims were changing in my previous logs (logging to screen in the driveway). I definitely agree that its entirely possible that Im jumping the gun on adjustments and not waiting for fuel trims to average out before making adjustments.

As I stated in my email. We have to get your MAF working with your ETS intake. Once we can accurately determine the proper MAF scaling and compensation values, then we can move your tune to 9417 or 9653 tephra big maps.

These things take time to get accurate. I would rather do it right over time, than rush it and have your car run like poop.

I will teach you as we go along so you can see the process.

Thanks again. I'll get a log back to you this evening w/ the 9640011 rom.

You can borrow someones servo valve to see if it's the problem. Takes 15 minutes to swap out

its definitely not hard to swap. not even sure I removed my uicp to do mine. My issue was there before and after.

appauldd, you got mail.

I was having idle problems for a long time, I noticed the previous owner of my car was running meth so I knew it was the Idle Control Valve, after replacing it... problem solved!

in my experience my car started idle like crap after I switched to appauldd 94170715(is great). So today after getting very irritated from stalling last night at every stop and decelaration in neutral, i decided to look at my rom and compare it to the previous 94170015 i was running. Well I first took a look at my idle tables which in the 0715 were in Fareinheit and in the 0015 were in celcius and translated everything into celcius. What I saw is that the higher temp values were off by alot compared to my previous 0015. So I copied all the tables into the 0715
and also the accel enrichment(incorrect) in 0715 from 0015 and now it idles like a champ, close to it anyways. actually it was a little high when rolling in neutral while driving (1050-1150) which I have been adjusting, when the car is parked in neutral is steady 1000rpms. For me something this simple did it. definetly not close to stalling anymore

Thanks Appauldd for this great conversion of the V7.

BTW I run 272 kelford,gt3582hta, recirculating samco bov, injen intake, PTE 1000cc injectors, and a lot other stuff that can alter idle.

Please post your observations about the differences with pictures. I want to make sure we have everything 100% correct. I will make the changes to the XML and send it out to those that are interested.

Glad you like what we've done with 94170715.

Paul

might sound stupid but I don't know how to copy the ecu flash tables images in evom.

You have to save the page as an image....hit control and print screen. Then open like word or power point. Then right click and paste the image of your desktop. Then right click the on the image and then Save As. Then you can post the image as you would any other image.

Or....just email it to me.

Same SN at g Mail dot com

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...idletables.jpg
This are the tables that worked with my car, if you comapre it to the 94170715 V7, temp and step tables are somewhat different. obviously gotta change everything to celcius. Then you adjust rpm tables to your likings.

can't see them......too small.

been trying to send them bigger it doesn't let me.

use, control+, to enlarge the screen

Yeah...nice try. The table becomes all blurry and unreadable.{thumbup}

tried downloaing them bigger through photobucket still show small here.

Paste the link to your photobucket.

....

that dont work either

OK I see them....WHEW.....lol

Let me take a look

Those are no where near the stock 94170015 values. As for the temperatures....all you would need to do is change the scaling to Temp for Fahrenheit.

no, what I was saying is that this values helped my car to have a very nice idle during stop and decelaration. I personaly didn't make this changes, but my car is idleing fine with this step values but to accuretly change my step values as you notice this are different from the steps of 0715 V7 I had to change scaling into celcius, sorry about the misunderstanding. But if you want to try this values on another car that suffers the same idle problems I am curious if it helps, that's all. Like I said it was a world of difference.

I had to change them to celcius because the 0015 rom don't have the fereinheit scaling.

Oh ok....I got ya.

Thank you for the input. I was under the impression that I made an error in the setup of the 94170715 xml.

You know you can copy the scaling from the v7 into the stock 94170015 and change the table to read in F.

I recommend just going with v7 anyway.

oh yeah I know about the scaling it was just easier to click on temp_celcius on 0715. I am definetly runnin V7 no doubt about it. {thumbup}

off topic. I am impressed how accurate the fuel map cells afr are almost if not exact to the actual afr the car is running so much easier to tune.

off topic. I am impressed how accurate the fuel map cells afr are almost if not exact to the actual afr the car is running so much easier to tune.[/QUOTE]

hi, V7 is worth it.

but, if I understand your post, changing tephra versions has no effect on how your fuel map behaves. It sounds like you did not copy your old latencies over and, lucky for you, the generic latencies fit your car well enough.

Great Post, I'm going to check these things out, I was also messing around with ver 1.29 and found some extra idle tables with 496rpm in them... hold thumbs lets see if this sorts the issue out...

:thumbup:

You have an IX....make sure you get the right v7 rom.{thumbup}

they say to just replace it I just cleaned mine valve with some brake clean and wd40 and it works better but prob should just buy a new one.

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Come up with anything?

Well its improved but not cured, thinking I might need to replace it - cant find anything else to change in the ROM...

:(

I know this thread is very old but i'm having the same problem.So i"ve ordered an idle control valve.There's nothing in SA at the moment so they're ordering it from Japan.Really annoying,but i guess i'l have to be patient.