post your maps here
Jul 9, 2006, 11:44 AM
#151
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here is an obviously silly question, but cant find my own answer to it... Soo say i wanna buy a tactrix cable, and run a map listed on one of these sites, how would i go about doing it? i mean i planned to prolly go with the cable and self loading idea, but how do i find the right map for the mods i will have.
Purchasing an exhaust tonight will have a TBE(catless),and a BMC drop in filter by wednesday. wanting to run a race map 110 octane and a 93 one... whats the best route to go with this..? Thanks in advance!
Oops, forgot that within maybe a month or two after that i wanna get an upgraded 02 housing,and maybe DNP tube headers.
Did i mention i have a IX will that make a difference?
Purchasing an exhaust tonight will have a TBE(catless),and a BMC drop in filter by wednesday. wanting to run a race map 110 octane and a 93 one... whats the best route to go with this..? Thanks in advance!
Oops, forgot that within maybe a month or two after that i wanna get an upgraded 02 housing,and maybe DNP tube headers.
Did i mention i have a IX will that make a difference?
Jul 9, 2006, 11:51 AM
#152
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Originally Posted by mchuang
Yea that is what I want to know. I can go in and change a few parameters, whos map is it then?
I guess best thing to do is just post your map and dont mention who tuned it.
I guess best thing to do is just post your map and dont mention who tuned it.
We don't have the capability to moderate maps based upon the percentage of changes from the vendor original. How much of a change will satisfy a vendor that his work is not being given away? I don't know and unfortunately the only solution is not allow any maps that have been revised. If maps are posted without a source and a vendor reports it as his, it will probably be removed. Thanks.
Speedlimit..
Jul 9, 2006, 12:01 PM
#153
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Originally Posted by mchuang
I guess best thing to do is just post your map and dont mention who tuned it.
I also think that everybody should look at http://www.osecuroms.org/ like has already been stated.
Last edited by A418t81; Jul 9, 2006 at 12:17 PM.
Jul 9, 2006, 12:02 PM
#154
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Originally Posted by Evo_Kid
Here is your other avenue...
There is already a website that has a library of ECUFlash maps.
Right now there is basically no EVO maps, but they have a vast librabry of Subaru maps.
We should start posting EVO maps there. You have to register to see/download/add maps.
http://www.osecuroms.org/
There is already a website that has a library of ECUFlash maps.
Right now there is basically no EVO maps, but they have a vast librabry of Subaru maps.
We should start posting EVO maps there. You have to register to see/download/add maps.
http://www.osecuroms.org/
This is getting very ridiculous about who owns what anyway. I mean come on, if I'm correct we are allowed to post stock/base maps not done by a tuner and the OEM maps which are protected by Patent and Copyright from Mitsubishi are not considered a violation here. 
Either cover it full spectrum or leave it alone. I just ordered my cable, so hopefully I can look into my tuned map and see why it is so weak compared to my previous SAFC II Settings. I might just start from scratch and just bypass all this drama on here
L8TR
Last edited by Dayton_EVO; Jul 10, 2006 at 07:46 PM.
Jul 9, 2006, 12:41 PM
#155
Originally Posted by Dayton_EVO
Cool, thanks. This is getting very ridiculous about who owns what anyway. I mean come on, if I'm correct we are allowed to post stock/base maps not done by a tuner and the OEM maps which are protected by Patent and Copyright from Mitsubishibi are not considered a violation here.
Either cover it full spectrum or leave it alone. I just ordered my cable, so hopefully I can look into my tuned map and see why it is so weak compared to my previous SAFC II Settings. I might just start from scratch and just bypass all this drama on here
L8TR
This is getting very ridiculous about who owns what anyway. I mean come on, if I'm correct we are allowed to post stock/base maps not done by a tuner and the OEM maps which are protected by Patent and Copyright from Mitsubishibi are not considered a violation here. Either cover it full spectrum or leave it alone. I just ordered my cable, so hopefully I can look into my tuned map and see why it is so weak compared to my previous SAFC II Settings. I might just start from scratch and just bypass all this drama on here
L8TR
That is why I started from scratch also. Car feels great now. Big ups to Colby and EVO MAD for great products your names are going down in EVO HISTORY
. As far as the Mitsubishi remark, you are correct IMO it is the same thing especially since the tuner is taking the Basemap and modifying it. They dont modify it completly but they change some parameters, just like we are doing changing some parameters, where on the other hand AEM or other engine management you pretty much start from scratch.
Jul 9, 2006, 03:08 PM
#157
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Originally Posted by mchuang
Yea that is what I want to know. I can go in and change a few parameters, whos map is it then?
I guess best thing to do is just post your map and dont mention who tuned it.
I guess best thing to do is just post your map and dont mention who tuned it.
Jul 9, 2006, 04:22 PM
#158
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http://www.osecuroms.org/ is where I will be posting all the maps that I modify. I have my stock rom and a slightly self modified rom posted there. Evom errs to the safe side in regards of ip rights.
I had a huge paragraph written on my opinions on the subject of map sharing and IP rights but that is a topic better discused in depth else where. however this is an interesting post on nasioc http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=267
I honestly look forward to seeing what is being done by everybody in their tunes and the results. it looks like it may be better to just post them in http://www.osecuroms.org/ or http://forums.openecu.org/index.php
I had a huge paragraph written on my opinions on the subject of map sharing and IP rights but that is a topic better discused in depth else where. however this is an interesting post on nasioc http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=267
I honestly look forward to seeing what is being done by everybody in their tunes and the results. it looks like it may be better to just post them in http://www.osecuroms.org/ or http://forums.openecu.org/index.php
Last edited by andenbre; Jul 9, 2006 at 04:36 PM.
Jul 9, 2006, 05:06 PM
#159
Originally Posted by andenbre
http://www.osecuroms.org/ is where I will be posting all the maps that I modify. I have my stock rom and a slightly self modified rom posted there. Evom errs to the safe side in regards of ip rights.
I had a huge paragraph written on my opinions on the subject of map sharing and IP rights but that is a topic better discused in depth else where. however this is an interesting post on nasioc http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=267
I honestly look forward to seeing what is being done by everybody in their tunes and the results. it looks like it may be better to just post them in http://www.osecuroms.org/ or http://forums.openecu.org/index.php
I had a huge paragraph written on my opinions on the subject of map sharing and IP rights but that is a topic better discused in depth else where. however this is an interesting post on nasioc http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=267
I honestly look forward to seeing what is being done by everybody in their tunes and the results. it looks like it may be better to just post them in http://www.osecuroms.org/ or http://forums.openecu.org/index.php
Jul 9, 2006, 05:28 PM
#160
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i am not a lawyer but the jist of what he said is that basicly mitsu would be the only ones with any potental legal "ownership" of the roms other than the car owner. when you purchased your car you didnt get a software license limiting the use of the ecm maps so i dont know if even mitsu would or else I am sure they would have gone after ecutek ect. I am not advocating anybody posting anybody elses professional tunes, particularly with the intention of giveing away a professional tuners map. if you do have your own maps that you want to post then post away. and I will recomend once again http://www.osecuroms.org/ and/or http://forums.openecu.org/index.php
Last edited by andenbre; Jul 9, 2006 at 05:31 PM.
Jul 9, 2006, 05:35 PM
#161
This only gets more and more interesting.. I have already had some success extracting "Locked" Maps, FWIW their basically stock ECU roms with their tuning on them.. But it can bring even more attention to this subject.
I really don't understand what differentiates the tuners modifying stock EVO maps, I would think their also violating IP even MORE than a shadetree tuner because their selling and profitting off work developed by mitsubishi, although most of the flashing tools I've seen only write some data portions of the map, they still have to start with a clean slate, and since the data was "Reverse engineered" And extracted, I wonder if the proper channels were taken in the first place to extract the data.
I look at it this way.. If you buy a paint by numbers kit, its made by a company, the tuner fills in the painted spots, but the overall picture is still made by that original company.. We as enthusiasts are also only altering the paint colors too.. and there will be many of us who look at the kit, and choose the same colors simply because that is what works right..
Now, if you are distributing the completed picture? Who owns the design? In my work with computer graphics, you can take images and alter them, but at some point the new image is different enough to not contain enough of the original work so it becomes your own work.. I do not see this here...
Again this is a discussion for another thread... but I just wanted to talk a bit about it.
I really don't understand what differentiates the tuners modifying stock EVO maps, I would think their also violating IP even MORE than a shadetree tuner because their selling and profitting off work developed by mitsubishi, although most of the flashing tools I've seen only write some data portions of the map, they still have to start with a clean slate, and since the data was "Reverse engineered" And extracted, I wonder if the proper channels were taken in the first place to extract the data.
I look at it this way.. If you buy a paint by numbers kit, its made by a company, the tuner fills in the painted spots, but the overall picture is still made by that original company.. We as enthusiasts are also only altering the paint colors too.. and there will be many of us who look at the kit, and choose the same colors simply because that is what works right..
Now, if you are distributing the completed picture? Who owns the design? In my work with computer graphics, you can take images and alter them, but at some point the new image is different enough to not contain enough of the original work so it becomes your own work.. I do not see this here...
Again this is a discussion for another thread... but I just wanted to talk a bit about it.
Jul 9, 2006, 06:12 PM
#162
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Originally Posted by MalibuJack
This only gets more and more interesting.. I have already had some success extracting "Locked" Maps, FWIW their basically stock ECU roms with their tuning on them.. But it can bring even more attention to this subject.
I really don't understand what differentiates the tuners modifying stock EVO maps, I would think their also violating IP even MORE than a shadetree tuner because their selling and profitting off work developed by mitsubishi, although most of the flashing tools I've seen only write some data portions of the map, they still have to start with a clean slate, and since the data was "Reverse engineered" And extracted, I wonder if the proper channels were taken in the first place to extract the data.
I look at it this way.. If you buy a paint by numbers kit, its made by a company, the tuner fills in the painted spots, but the overall picture is still made by that original company.. We as enthusiasts are also only altering the paint colors too.. and there will be many of us who look at the kit, and choose the same colors simply because that is what works right..
Now, if you are distributing the completed picture? Who owns the design? In my work with computer graphics, you can take images and alter them, but at some point the new image is different enough to not contain enough of the original work so it becomes your own work.. I do not see this here...
Again this is a discussion for another thread... but I just wanted to talk a bit about it.
I really don't understand what differentiates the tuners modifying stock EVO maps, I would think their also violating IP even MORE than a shadetree tuner because their selling and profitting off work developed by mitsubishi, although most of the flashing tools I've seen only write some data portions of the map, they still have to start with a clean slate, and since the data was "Reverse engineered" And extracted, I wonder if the proper channels were taken in the first place to extract the data.
I look at it this way.. If you buy a paint by numbers kit, its made by a company, the tuner fills in the painted spots, but the overall picture is still made by that original company.. We as enthusiasts are also only altering the paint colors too.. and there will be many of us who look at the kit, and choose the same colors simply because that is what works right..
Now, if you are distributing the completed picture? Who owns the design? In my work with computer graphics, you can take images and alter them, but at some point the new image is different enough to not contain enough of the original work so it becomes your own work.. I do not see this here...
Again this is a discussion for another thread... but I just wanted to talk a bit about it.
. the mods have asked that we not post any "paid for" maps in evom so we need to respect that or they will shut down/delete threads. there are other forums that we can discuss those maps though
Jul 9, 2006, 11:19 PM
#163
All I can say is even though I'm using my own created maps for my recently installed methanol kit, and the car now runs like a bat out hell, I would have never been able to accomplish this without the previous custom tuning my ECU had. Are the maps a product? Not any more. But I admit I'm really getting my moneys worth now out of the $350 flash I had done a year ago. Its getting too confusing - good night
Jul 10, 2006, 06:11 AM
#164
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Concerning the "rights" issue, I think that even Al (a lawyer) knows that the tuner's case is weak at best. Changing values in the maps does not constitute anything proprietary.
While we understand and value the "art" of tuning, a court would take a look at the percentage that the software differs from the original. For that matter I support the notion that Mitsu owns the rights and a judge would ask the tuner if they had permission to alter the ROM. They would of course say no.
What this is really about is protecting the tuners many who are sponsors of this forum. I do think that we should not have blatant exchanges of maps. However did the tuners when they started out take existing maps by others and learn what changes they made copy or emulate and sell those maps?
We are doing this out of courtesy not based on a strong legal premise.
While we understand and value the "art" of tuning, a court would take a look at the percentage that the software differs from the original. For that matter I support the notion that Mitsu owns the rights and a judge would ask the tuner if they had permission to alter the ROM. They would of course say no.
What this is really about is protecting the tuners many who are sponsors of this forum. I do think that we should not have blatant exchanges of maps. However did the tuners when they started out take existing maps by others and learn what changes they made copy or emulate and sell those maps?
We are doing this out of courtesy not based on a strong legal premise.
Jul 10, 2006, 06:58 AM
#165
Originally Posted by chmodlf
Concerning the "rights" issue, I think that even Al (a lawyer) knows that the tuner's case is weak at best. Changing values in the maps does not constitute anything proprietary.
While we understand and value the "art" of tuning, a court would take a look at the percentage that the software differs from the original. For that matter I support the notion that Mitsu owns the rights and a judge would ask the tuner if they had permission to alter the ROM. They would of course say no.
What this is really about is protecting the tuners many who are sponsors of this forum. I do think that we should not have blatant exchanges of maps. However did the tuners when they started out take existing maps by others and learn what changes they made copy or emulate and sell those maps?
We are doing this out of courtesy not based on a strong legal premise.
While we understand and value the "art" of tuning, a court would take a look at the percentage that the software differs from the original. For that matter I support the notion that Mitsu owns the rights and a judge would ask the tuner if they had permission to alter the ROM. They would of course say no.
What this is really about is protecting the tuners many who are sponsors of this forum. I do think that we should not have blatant exchanges of maps. However did the tuners when they started out take existing maps by others and learn what changes they made copy or emulate and sell those maps?
We are doing this out of courtesy not based on a strong legal premise.