AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

holy crap, how are you able to run so much timing?
and like was asked above, what are you using to log?

elhalisf

iTrader: (171)

like i had stated above, my autometer gauge seems to be accurate. i had borrowed my friends zeitronix wideband with his electronic boost sensor. with no change in the mbc, i read a 24psi spike in the zeitronix readings and down to 22.5 psi. i see the same with my autometer.

I cant talk about the datalogger being used, but lets just say its very acurate.

any other suggestions?

ScrappyJack

iTrader: (1)

The only other thing that comes to mind is how accurate your datalogger really is. It strikes me that there is a possibility that you are not getting an accurate timing reading. Unfortunately, since you are being so vague, one has to make a lot of assumptions.

Assuming you are on a stock turbo, assuming this is a 3rd-gear only pull, assuming your AFRs are somewhere in the high 10s to low 11s, assuming you are around 22 PSI at around 7000 RPM, assuming that timing measurement is accurate, and assuming you've pulled and examined your plugs for detonation and found none...

elhalisf

iTrader: (171)

you assumptions are definatley understandable

stock turbo
3rd, 4th and 5th gear pulls
AFR's are 11.7 down to 11.2 at 6.5k+rpm on 94 octane
20.5 or so at 7k rpm
timing measurments are accurate to a 99.999% certainty
plugs changed recently to BPR7ES and gapped to about 0.26

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

...Wow...






Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you want to taper your timing values based on load and RPM? ... e.g. higher load = less timing, higher rpm = more timing

Also to elaborate on what MalibuJack said about the load value ... simple things like driving into a headwind, going uphill or downhill will have an effect on the calculated load value. The same goes for how early you go WOT - i.e. flooring it from 2800 rpm will probably land you in a higher load column than starting at 4000 rpm, all other things being equal.

l8r)

taenaive

iTrader: (20)

if you are really having 16+ timing with 24 psi and your AFR is in that good range you should be able to feel the v12 viper engine like power around 3500 rpm. If you are not knocking and if you don't feel the massive power, It is pretty clear that your car is not boosting that much. Because I feel the pretty good torque with just +3 degee of timing with just 22 psi spike. My peak torque ever recorded is 344 f/lb, you should record like +400 f/lb with 24 psi and 16+ timing.

elhalisf

iTrader: (171)

i will also add that the turbo built boost soo much quicker.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

You have to be careful with alot of timing at peak torque, its where cylinder pressures and engine load would be highest, detonation can very quickly annhialate your bearings or nuke your pistons. I have tuned radically like that before, but the engine typically didn't last longer than a few weeks before I had problems (usually on a really bad day it would let go completely)

You can get away with that much timing in a perfect environment, but that is the point where I see head bolts stretch and head gaskets let go.. My new engine will have O-ring head gaskets and of course head studs if I would attempt that on an Evo engine.. One bad misfire, bad gas, engine fart, or whatnot can do damage.. That is why tuning is more about restraint..

I tune my car to get a very flat boost curve, I use a closed loop EBC and I forego the bit boost spike for a bit more timing, then as RPM increases I increase the duty of the EBC so boost climbs a bit, but stays relatively flat, AFR's on my car are typically lean (For some reason the Ethanol in the pump gas in my area let me get away with it... Don't try this at home! I'm willing to break parts and not complain if they do) I've run tims on pump gas with minimal mods that some guys were running on Meth injection and close to race fuel tuning..

If you want a car that is quick and smooth, you want a broad flat torque curve.. The higher you can keep the torque at higher RPM, the more horsepower you are going to produce.. I had seen a WR turbo car tuned that produced 397hp and 400lbft of torque, Not quite that magical 400whp mark but the mods on this guys car were comparable to basic bolt-ons and a WR turbo, the fact that he was still producing around 250lbft of torque at 7200rpm was what made his car a MONSTER at "Midnight Speed Exhibitions" My car never came close to being that quick with similar mods.. But I also was reluctant to put my ***** to the wall on a tune when the car was still my daily driver.

taenaive

iTrader: (20)

I want to see the dyno readings of this car. If this is all true, It will break the record of the pump gas readings. Take it to the dyno and find out if your car is a freak or just the case of low boost. or take the logger readings and post here with the time(sec) and RPM reading. I can give you estimated HP and Tq. Most of loggers record the time intervals between readings.

elhalisf

iTrader: (171)

pull #4 lasted exactly 16 seconds and it was on 5th gear. the car probably weighed 3800lbs (ssl+2 people+full tank of gas of 94 octane). do you need more info than that?

when i went home and went through the datalogging, i immediatley knew there was too much timing. i immediatley changed back to the old settings where timing from the 140-260 loads where the same, ie. 8 degrees timing upto 6k rpm.