evo 9 boost control orific removed
Aug 6, 2006, 09:53 PM
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evo 9 boost control orific removed
OK here goes I removed the orific in the boost control line before the solonoid and boost as expected increased dramaticly. now I have been trying to get control of the boost with ecu flash and the boost desired engine load map and I could use a little guidance here. what I have done is bring down the "boost desired engine load" from 159.4 gradualy to approx 130 and all I have accomplished is a spike and inconsistant boost pressures .
What is boost control load offset and what effect does it have? I suspect my solution lies in that, the "turbo boost error correction" and posibly the "boost delay" settings
explanations of those three settings and any suggestions would be of great assistance to me and I am sure others looking to completley control boost with the ecm
thanks in advanceif neccecary I am willing to put in an orafic that is a little larger than stock but if possible I want to do it all by ec
Aug 6, 2006, 11:08 PM
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with the pill at 159 I got 1.2 bar usualy, sometimes a little more
well with my target map set at 159 it would hit over 1.5 bar on the MR guage, while logging with approx 142 in the target it would still spike to 1.5 or slightly higher and hold 1.4-1.5 bar with only 1-2 knock counts in the 4500 area. I am not at all comfortable with the settings I have done up til now just cause they seem to have very little effect on the boost
I would like to know what load offset does. would an increase in this # help me get control
and the boost delay timer intregues me as well. is this time from startup the ecu has full boost capabilitys?
here is one of the logs. not a full pull due to the fact I was watching boost control and wasnt concerned with anything in the taper area
well with my target map set at 159 it would hit over 1.5 bar on the MR guage, while logging with approx 142 in the target it would still spike to 1.5 or slightly higher and hold 1.4-1.5 bar with only 1-2 knock counts in the 4500 area. I am not at all comfortable with the settings I have done up til now just cause they seem to have very little effect on the boost
I would like to know what load offset does. would an increase in this # help me get control
and the boost delay timer intregues me as well. is this time from startup the ecu has full boost capabilitys?
here is one of the logs. not a full pull due to the fact I was watching boost control and wasnt concerned with anything in the taper area
Code:
Accel RPM IPWidth TPS AirFlow AirTemp Knock TimingAdv 12.55 2343.75 1.28 17.25 56.61 96.55 0 33 12.94 2312.50 1.28 17.25 56.61 96.55 0 34 12.94 2312.50 1.28 17.25 56.61 96.55 0 34 12.55 2312.50 1.28 17.25 56.61 96.55 0 34 12.55 2312.50 1.28 17.25 56.61 96.55 0 34 12.94 2281.25 1.28 17.25 56.61 96.55 0 34 12.94 2281.25 1.28 17.25 56.61 96.55 0 34 12.94 2281.25 1.28 17.25 56.61 96.55 0 34 13.33 2281.25 1.28 17.25 56.61 96.55 0 34 12.94 2281.25 1.28 20.00 56.61 96.55 0 35 17.25 2250.00 2.82 31.76 119.51 96.55 0 31 43.14 2375.00 4.61 45.49 232.73 96.55 0 22 54.51 2187.50 5.12 55.29 239.02 96.55 0 20 55.29 2375.00 4.86 72.94 264.18 96.55 0 21 58.04 2250.00 5.12 78.04 264.18 95.50 0 20 58.43 2437.50 5.12 90.59 276.76 95.50 0 20 61.18 2343.75 5.38 90.59 276.76 95.50 0 19 61.57 2468.75 5.38 90.59 295.63 95.50 0 19 63.53 2406.25 5.63 90.59 301.92 95.50 0 19 63.53 2500.00 5.38 87.84 314.50 95.50 0 19 65.49 2500.00 5.63 82.75 333.37 94.46 0 18 67.45 2562.50 5.89 82.75 339.66 94.46 0 18 68.24 2593.75 5.89 94.12 352.24 94.46 0 18 70.59 2625.00 6.14 100.00 364.82 94.46 0 17 71.76 2656.25 6.40 100.00 377.40 94.46 0 16 73.73 2687.50 6.66 100.00 396.27 93.42 0 15 76.47 2750.00 7.17 100.00 415.14 93.42 0 15 79.22 2781.25 7.42 100.00 434.01 93.42 0 13 81.96 2812.50 7.68 100.00 459.17 93.42 0 12 83.92 2875.00 8.19 100.00 478.04 93.42 0 11 87.45 2906.25 8.70 100.00 509.49 92.37 0 10 90.20 2968.75 8.96 100.00 540.94 92.37 0 9 94.90 3031.25 9.47 100.00 572.39 92.37 0 8 99.22 3093.75 10.24 100.00 616.42 92.37 0 6 100.00 3125.00 11.26 100.00 660.45 91.33 0 5 100.00 3218.75 12.29 100.00 717.06 91.33 0 4 100.00 3250.00 13.31 100.00 779.96 91.33 0 3 100.00 3312.50 14.59 100.00 849.15 90.28 0 2 100.00 3406.25 15.62 100.00 905.76 90.28 0 2 100.00 3437.50 16.38 100.00 956.08 89.24 0 0 100.00 3531.25 17.15 100.00 1018.98 89.24 0 -1 100.00 3593.75 17.66 100.00 1050.43 88.20 0 -1 100.00 3687.50 17.66 100.00 1056.72 88.20 0 0 100.00 3750.00 17.15 100.00 1044.14 88.20 0 0 100.00 3843.75 16.90 100.00 1063.01 87.15 0 0 100.00 3906.25 16.90 100.00 1069.30 87.15 0 0 100.00 3968.75 17.41 100.00 1100.75 86.11 0 0 100.00 4093.75 17.41 100.00 1125.91 86.11 0 0 100.00 4156.25 17.66 100.00 1163.65 86.11 0 0 100.00 4187.50 17.66 100.00 1169.94 85.06 0 1 100.00 4281.25 16.90 100.00 1157.36 85.06 0 2 100.00 4375.00 16.13 100.00 1125.91 85.06 0 4 100.00 4468.75 16.13 100.00 1138.49 84.02 0 4 100.00 4531.25 16.38 100.00 1201.39 84.02 0 3 100.00 4562.50 17.15 100.00 1276.87 84.02 0 2 100.00 4687.50 17.66 100.00 1333.48 82.98 0 1 100.00 4750.00 18.18 100.00 1377.51 82.98 0 2 100.00 4843.75 18.18 100.00 1396.38 82.98 0 2 100.00 4875.00 18.18 100.00 1408.96 81.93 0 2 100.00 4968.75 17.66 100.00 1402.67 81.93 0 3 100.00 5031.25 17.41 100.00 1408.96 81.93 0 3 100.00 5125.00 17.15 100.00 1408.96 80.89 0 4 100.00 5218.75 16.64 100.00 1396.38 80.89 0 5 100.00 5250.00 16.38 100.00 1383.80 80.89 0 6 100.00 5375.00 16.13 100.00 1390.09 80.89 0 6 100.00 5406.25 15.87 100.00 1408.96 80.89 0 7 100.00 5500.00 14.08 37.25 987.53 79.84 0 20 27.06 5312.50 0.77 13.73 157.25 80.89 0 35 10.98 5468.75 1.54 13.73 106.93 80.89 0 35 13.33 5468.75 1.28 13.73 125.80 80.89 0 35 10.20 5406.25 1.02 13.73 106.93 80.89 0 35 7.84 5250.00 0.00 13.73 75.48 81.93 0 30 5.88 5062.50 0.00 13.33 56.61 81.93 0 30 6.27 4875.00 0.00 13.33 56.61 82.98 0 30 6.67 4593.75 0.00 13.33 56.61 82.98 0 30 7.06 4093.75 0.00 13.33 56.61 82.98 0 30 7.45 4156.25 0.00 13.33 62.90 84.02 0 30 7.45 4125.00 0.00 13.33 62.90 84.02 0 30 7.84 4125.00 0.00 13.33 62.90 84.02 0 30 7.84 4093.75 0.00 13.33 62.90 84.02 0 30 7.84 4093.75 0.00 13.33 62.90 85.06 0 30 7.84 4062.50 0.00 13.33 62.90 85.06 0 30 9.02 4062.50 1.02 13.33 75.48 85.06 0 35 9.80 4031.25 1.02 13.33 75.48 85.06 0 35 9.80 4031.25 1.02 13.33 75.48 86.11 0 35
Last edited by andenbre; Aug 6, 2006 at 11:21 PM.
Aug 6, 2006, 11:13 PM
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there are a few threads just in the last week or so that explain most of this
boost desired engine load changed to 159.4 everywhere and removal of the pill can usually result in good boost hold and control and the delay timer is how long the ecu will wait when over a certain load to pull fuel and then boost limit is that load it must stay over, most of the time tuners also max both of those out
i dont have a stock turbo but from what iv seen the stock turbo will not make a whole lot more than 21 pounds on the stock solonoid, that is here in az with no less than 95 degree weather on an 05, take that for what it is cuz there are a lot of ways to raise that
im kind of rambling on but we need to make an extended how to for ecuflash on boost control because this is asked just about everyday
boost desired engine load changed to 159.4 everywhere and removal of the pill can usually result in good boost hold and control and the delay timer is how long the ecu will wait when over a certain load to pull fuel and then boost limit is that load it must stay over, most of the time tuners also max both of those out
i dont have a stock turbo but from what iv seen the stock turbo will not make a whole lot more than 21 pounds on the stock solonoid, that is here in az with no less than 95 degree weather on an 05, take that for what it is cuz there are a lot of ways to raise that
im kind of rambling on but we need to make an extended how to for ecuflash on boost control because this is asked just about everyday
Last edited by gogoevo; Aug 6, 2006 at 11:26 PM.
Aug 6, 2006, 11:36 PM
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I see 159.4 without the pill is holding boost well. the problem is it will hold it above 1.5 bar, above my comfort range (and guage limits) at this time. changes down have had little to no effect and the bosst control seems laggy.
I have read and searched and follow the ecuflash forum pretty closely and havent found any good explanation of boost control load offset and turbo boost error correction. people have asked about them and others have responded with what is in their tunes or what they set it to but no explanation of what they do. if nobody can answer I will have to play with the settings and see what happens, however I would rather ask for some experianced advise without blindly leaping into these settings
I have read and searched and follow the ecuflash forum pretty closely and havent found any good explanation of boost control load offset and turbo boost error correction. people have asked about them and others have responded with what is in their tunes or what they set it to but no explanation of what they do. if nobody can answer I will have to play with the settings and see what happens, however I would rather ask for some experianced advise without blindly leaping into these settings
Aug 7, 2006, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by andenbre
I see 159.4 without the pill is holding boost well. the problem is it will hold it above 1.5 bar, above my comfort range (and guage limits) at this time. changes down have had little to no effect and the bosst control seems laggy.
I have read and searched and follow the ecuflash forum pretty closely and havent found any good explanation of boost control load offset and turbo boost error correction. people have asked about them and others have responded with what is in their tunes or what they set it to but no explanation of what they do. if nobody can answer I will have to play with the settings and see what happens, however I would rather ask for some experianced advise without blindly leaping into these settings
I have read and searched and follow the ecuflash forum pretty closely and havent found any good explanation of boost control load offset and turbo boost error correction. people have asked about them and others have responded with what is in their tunes or what they set it to but no explanation of what they do. if nobody can answer I will have to play with the settings and see what happens, however I would rather ask for some experianced advise without blindly leaping into these settings
so far it seems to be quite tough fine tuning boost with stock means and we can find some good tricks if everyone is informed how it all works
Last edited by gogoevo; Aug 7, 2006 at 02:04 AM.
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Aug 7, 2006, 04:23 AM
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You can try to lower you max wastegate duty cycle maps. If they are set to 100, and you are getting too much boost, lower the settings to about 75 across the board and see what you get. If that works to lower the boost (it should sine the waste gate duty cycle is actually the boost control solenoid duty cycel) then masage the value to get the boost curve you want.
Aug 7, 2006, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mad_VIII
You can try to lower you max wastegate duty cycle maps. If they are set to 100, and you are getting too much boost, lower the settings to about 75 across the board and see what you get. If that works to lower the boost (it should sine the waste gate duty cycle is actually the boost control solenoid duty cycel) then masage the value to get the boost curve you want.
Aug 7, 2006, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by andenbre
Thanks I will give that a shot today. I will also separatly try turning boost control load offset up a little and see what happens
I know form my utec days that the stock boost control solenoid does not respond very well at anything over 75% duty cycle. I'm not 100% sure that the "max wastegate duty cycle" map is the same as a boost control solenoid duty cycle map, but it seems to be.
I am using an auxilary bleed valve (not the same as a manual boost controller, just creates an adjustable bleed in the line to the stock boost solenoid) and have had good results by lowering the "max wastegate duty cycle" settings down to 65 from 0-5000 and then slowly ramping up to a max of 80 at 7000 rpm. then using the auxilary blled valve to get the main boost level adjustment where I want it. I'm gonna post more info on this when I get some more logs and get the setting where I want them.
Aug 7, 2006, 11:48 AM
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like a dumb *** I changed 2 settings at once and I am now boosting about 1.1 bar with a spike to 1.2. Boost desired and waste gate duty were both lowered soo I will have to do some more work once I have it all sorted out I will let you know and post my results/rom
Aug 7, 2006, 02:42 PM
#12
Originally Posted by andenbre
with the pill at 159 I got 1.2 bar usualy, sometimes a little more
well with my target map set at 159 it would hit over 1.5 bar on the MR gauge,
well with my target map set at 159 it would hit over 1.5 bar on the MR gauge,
THEN I put a boost gauge on an otherwise stock car and saw 23psi of boost at peak torque and a taper to 19 by redline. Mitsubishi has no explanation why my car is overboosting, they want me to bring it in. Since ECUflash, the car still sees 23psi at peak torque with very little taper (20.5/21) to redline. I would strongly suggest putting a boost gauge on your car and seeing exactly what its doing, because if its running an additional .3 bar of boost and your MR gauge is inaccurate like mine, you could actually be up near 1.7Bar. With that all said, first thing I am gonna do after work is remove the one in mine and see what mischief I can achieve.
--John
Aug 7, 2006, 07:17 PM
#13
So I took the restrictor out and went from (these were back to back pulls) 19psi at peak torque to 24.55. I am not sure why the first pull was so low compared to what I normally see (23psi) but it hit 24.55 and then tapered to 21.5 by 7500 redline. Definitely MADE A HUGE improvement though.
Aug 7, 2006, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnBradley
So I took the restrictor out and went from (these were back to back pulls) 19psi at peak torque to 24.55. I am not sure why the first pull was so low compared to what I normally see (23psi) but it hit 24.55 and then tapered to 21.5 by 7500 redline. Definitely MADE A HUGE improvement though.
i have it at a relativly stable 1.3 bar (never goes past that) so I will wait for furthur adjustments til I get a new boost guage. I just bought a lc-1 this week so that will have to wait till next week
it looks like wastegate duty got the boost under control. I turned the target boost back up to the 130 range and have waste gate duty set to 85 across the board, with that I am seeing it hold approx 1.3 bar solid with essentaly no spike in 4th and up. however 1st and 2nd gear see a spike to 1.3 and it drops to 1.0 bar quickly, 3rd is a little hit or miss. Not sure why at this time but maybe some error correction changes are in order, I am just not sure why this is so previlant in 2nd and sometimes 3rd. I dont worry about 1st to much cause I am through it so fast that I wouldnt be surprised if the quage wasnt keeping up.
What is realy wild about all this is the boost is being calculated and controled by the ecm without input from an effective boost sensor. just pure math and rpm/maf/air temp and barometric press inputs
Aug 7, 2006, 10:55 PM
#15
In this evenings cooler air I saw a little more boost, and I watched it close. I am getting this increase of boost straight thru to about 5000-5500 ( I will log it as soon as I remember to) and then tapering. I know this sounds dumb, but is there a way to port the BCS to let it bleed more air? I mean why spend money if the stock system is so adjustable?