Are base e_flashes interchangeable.
Oct 19, 2006, 02:02 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
For this reason, there have been serious talks of raising eflash pricing to $149. Regardless of who gets along with one another, we have all been part of this discussion. I have been slow to give in, but posts like these give me a firm shove in the other direction. The forum can thank you if the professional tuners decide to unanimously accept this new minimum pricing model.
Oct 19, 2006, 02:34 PM
#32
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Eoriginally Posted by Evo_Kid
You also have to have the user level on developer.
I rest my case
Any of my customers who are caught sharing maps will get removed from the list of those who get free update flashes in the future
You also have to have the user level on developer.
Also, I dont think the tuner you bought your E-Flash from is gonna like you putting it on other IX's.
Originally Posted by ant_turbo
Ya I know,,,
I rest my case
Any of my customers who are caught sharing maps will get removed from the list of those who get free update flashes in the future
Oct 19, 2006, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Cannonballer
Sounds like a violation of the Sherman Act to me... I can't believe you would post something like that.
Oct 19, 2006, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by joshd
Wow. EvoM was the last place I'd ever expect to hear anti-trust issues raised!
Oct 19, 2006, 02:40 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
It is the tuner's intellectual creation designed to be used on the purchaser's car only and this has been factored into the pricing model. You put it on a friends car and the minimum pricing should be doubled and so on.
The industry does not take these things lightly. Merely posting about doing it shows his lack of respect for the tuner, the industry and evom, not only his lack of integrity.
The industry does not take these things lightly. Merely posting about doing it shows his lack of respect for the tuner, the industry and evom, not only his lack of integrity.
All the E FLASH ! map files I have delivered come with an express license and end user agreement which limits the use to the end user's own personal vehicle
I retain all other rights in the map and it is my intelectual property
If someone does not agree with this arrangement then they should not purchase the maps from me and take their business else where
This kind of activity referenced in the original posters thread is a good reason why I no longer promote any E FLASH ! services (although I still offer them to customers who request it)
If this BS continues I will just stop offering them
It is clear that the market and end user do not respect a value when it is provided and do not respect the hard work that goes into creating these maps
Oct 19, 2006, 02:43 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by Cannonballer
Why? Private citizens are encouraged to enforce the law through private suits seeking treble damages.
Oct 19, 2006, 03:15 PM
#37
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This is kinda funny...
Here we have a bunch of tuners who are violating the serman act by willfully consipring to set prices on a mail/downloaded flashing, using software that potentailly violates the copyrights of Mitsubishi since it is a project that only exists because of the reversed engineering efforts taken up by volunteers. The act of reverse engineering the ECU is itself a violation of DCMA, but because of the global nature of this research work, it may or may not be legal (in all countries)
IMHO, for tuners to hide behind the argument of intellectual rights is a bit hypocrytical. If you are really so concerned about your supposed "intellectual work" then use EcuTec so no one can see your tuning.
Here we have a bunch of tuners who are violating the serman act by willfully consipring to set prices on a mail/downloaded flashing, using software that potentailly violates the copyrights of Mitsubishi since it is a project that only exists because of the reversed engineering efforts taken up by volunteers. The act of reverse engineering the ECU is itself a violation of DCMA, but because of the global nature of this research work, it may or may not be legal (in all countries)
IMHO, for tuners to hide behind the argument of intellectual rights is a bit hypocrytical. If you are really so concerned about your supposed "intellectual work" then use EcuTec so no one can see your tuning.
Oct 19, 2006, 03:16 PM
#38
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I honestly find this whole discussion very interesting.
Personally, I don't think it's right to share the exact map you bought from a tuner and I wouldn't do it. I like to support the people that are performing this service, especially when it's being performed at such a reasonable price.
With that said, I wonder just how enforceable any such 'license agreement' can possibly be when it's entirely based off of proprietary work owned by Mitsubishi ...
Taking their work, their R&D, reverse-engineering it, then making a few changes to it and calling it your own 'product' is interesting and I honestly wonder as to the legality of any IP claim made based on that model. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm just throwing that out there for discussion.
Riddle-me-this ... according to the above theory, I could purchase a map from a tuner, make a few tweaks here and there to it, and then sell it as my own 'product' right?
This would be entirely different if you were creating your own maps completely from scratch I believe, but that is not the case here. The strongest legal claim that seems possible here is a lawsuit initiated by Mitsubishi ;-) Not that I think they'd ever do that ... voiding your warranty is enough to make them happy I guess
edit: chrisw beat me to it
Personally, I don't think it's right to share the exact map you bought from a tuner and I wouldn't do it. I like to support the people that are performing this service, especially when it's being performed at such a reasonable price.
With that said, I wonder just how enforceable any such 'license agreement' can possibly be when it's entirely based off of proprietary work owned by Mitsubishi ...
Taking their work, their R&D, reverse-engineering it, then making a few changes to it and calling it your own 'product' is interesting and I honestly wonder as to the legality of any IP claim made based on that model. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm just throwing that out there for discussion.
Riddle-me-this ... according to the above theory, I could purchase a map from a tuner, make a few tweaks here and there to it, and then sell it as my own 'product' right?
This would be entirely different if you were creating your own maps completely from scratch I believe, but that is not the case here. The strongest legal claim that seems possible here is a lawsuit initiated by Mitsubishi ;-) Not that I think they'd ever do that ... voiding your warranty is enough to make them happy I guess
edit: chrisw beat me to it
Last edited by joshd; Oct 19, 2006 at 03:19 PM.
Oct 19, 2006, 03:21 PM
#39
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This all comes down to respect and honesty. I agree with tuners on this one. They spend their time and resources to offer a service that many of us couldn't or don't have the time to do. To me this is like walking into a store and taking a TV, saying well my friend bought this one two days ago.
Guess that is just how I was raised.
Guess that is just how I was raised.
Oct 19, 2006, 03:36 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Cannonballer
Sounds like a violation of the Sherman Act to me... I can't believe you would post something like that.
Oct 19, 2006, 04:02 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by DynoFlash
All the E FLASH ! map files I have delivered come with an express license and end user agreement which limits the use to the end user's own personal vehicle
I retain all other rights in the map and it is my intelectual property
If someone does not agree with this arrangement then they should not purchase the maps from me and take their business else where
This kind of activity referenced in the original posters thread is a good reason why I no longer promote any E FLASH ! services (although I still offer them to customers who request it)
If this BS continues I will just stop offering them
It is clear that the market and end user do not respect a value when it is provided and do not respect the hard work that goes into creating these maps
I retain all other rights in the map and it is my intelectual property
If someone does not agree with this arrangement then they should not purchase the maps from me and take their business else where
This kind of activity referenced in the original posters thread is a good reason why I no longer promote any E FLASH ! services (although I still offer them to customers who request it)
If this BS continues I will just stop offering them
It is clear that the market and end user do not respect a value when it is provided and do not respect the hard work that goes into creating these maps
Good idea, because nobody can pull the rom of a mail-in or custom tuned map you do? Just because you stop offering eflash wont stop people sharing... Guess you will just have to quit all together?
Welcome to the p2p era, and join the music industry...That fight sure is working! cause nobody still dl's music illegally?
Oct 19, 2006, 04:13 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Second Chance
I'm just waiting till dyno flash starts sending out DRM's with all his eflashes
Oct 19, 2006, 04:25 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by travman
Good idea, because nobody can pull the rom of a mail-in or custom tuned map you do? Just because you stop offering eflash wont stop people sharing... Guess you will just have to quit all together?
Welcome to the p2p era, and join the music industry...That fight sure is working! cause nobody still dl's music illegally?
Welcome to the p2p era, and join the music industry...That fight sure is working! cause nobody still dl's music illegally?
Oct 19, 2006, 04:27 PM
#45
Originally Posted by chrisw
This is kinda funny...
Here we have a bunch of tuners who are violating the serman act by willfully consipring to set prices on a mail/downloaded flashing, using software that potentailly violates the copyrights of Mitsubishi since it is a project that only exists because of the reversed engineering efforts taken up by volunteers. The act of reverse engineering the ECU is itself a violation of DCMA, but because of the global nature of this research work, it may or may not be legal (in all countries)
IMHO, for tuners to hide behind the argument of intellectual rights is a bit hypocrytical. If you are really so concerned about your supposed "intellectual work" then use EcuTec so no one can see your tuning.
Here we have a bunch of tuners who are violating the serman act by willfully consipring to set prices on a mail/downloaded flashing, using software that potentailly violates the copyrights of Mitsubishi since it is a project that only exists because of the reversed engineering efforts taken up by volunteers. The act of reverse engineering the ECU is itself a violation of DCMA, but because of the global nature of this research work, it may or may not be legal (in all countries)
IMHO, for tuners to hide behind the argument of intellectual rights is a bit hypocrytical. If you are really so concerned about your supposed "intellectual work" then use EcuTec so no one can see your tuning.
EcuTeK (as it is spelled) is no more difficult to hack than any other security out there. Your claims not only have no merit, but an EcuTeK eflash would cost the mandatory $650. How would you like a $650 eflash?