Well After switching up setups and down grading to a fp black and back to my smaller comp280s I wanted to make sure I could get everything I could out of these cams so I picked up a set of used skunk2 cam gears.

I hit the dyno Saturday with a pretty good street tune and netted 398whp and 347tq on pump at about 25-26 psi on strait 93. I made sure the afrs were where I wanted them to be then set out to play with the cam gears. After many pulls and tweaking I ended up at +3 on the intake and +4 on the exhaust. This netted my a peak gain of 28whp and 12ft tq. On a side note nothing was lost in the power band, it was all gains and held power out the top a little bit better as well Win win in my book. For a total of about 300$ in dyno time and cam gears I would say that a heck of a deal.

I then went on to bump the boost one more psi roughly ending up at 26-27 psi. and ended up with a peak 38whp gain and a 18ft tq peak.

The boost was logged vie a omni 4bar map sensor as I am speed density.

On a side note this is what worked best for MY setup. Not saying that everyone can or will get gains from cam gears but for my car it worked out pretty darn well. Also this dyno is kind of a ball buster. A buddy who put down 525 on a mustang only put down 541 on this dyno.

Link to the video with better sheets inside
http://youtu.be/yTyemay70SQ


This picture shows run 3 "green" which I already made a tweak to the gears on and the end result on pump gas same 25-26psi was run 14 "blue". Please ignore run "16" red, that was 31-32 psi on pump/meth.




Car setup
built engine, eagles/wiseco hd pistons
super tech valve springs
stock valves and ports
comp 280s
skunk 2 cam gears
jmf drag intake manifold
jmf intercooler
jmf intercooler pipes
jmf catch can
jmf intake pipe
megan o2 housing
ported stock exhaust manifold
Fp. black turbo with 19 psi actuator
a.f.i 1000cc injectors
255hp fuel pump
exedy tripple
ecu controlled boost
speed density

 

Valve timing orchestration is one of the most overlooked part in an engine build and tune. Good job
mikey

 

Did you verify cam timing prior to playing with the cam gears? The reason I ask is you moved the total timing event one tooth for best power. If the timing is on, the centerlines of the cams are definitely not cool out of the box.

aaron

 

Cam timing is correct The head and deck were never cut as well.
Some notes/highlights
- with the cams strait up the car idles at about -14 -15in vacuum. at around 1050-1100rpm
- I started out trying what a few people on here have said work best for these cams -4in and -2ex and the car did not like that one bit. Lost like 30hp. Idle was about -10 -11 in vacuum.
-After playing with them for about I think 15 pulls I got to the +3in and +4ex and the car idles at -14 -15 in vacuum.
-I never bothered to degree the cams as my theory was, ok you degree them to get them to zero, but does that mean that is where they will make the most power? That I am still unsure of, maybe one day I will take the time and degree them and see what I come up with but this was fun and it made power so whatever.

Johnbradley- Arron- any input is much appreciated, you guys do some awesome things over there at english racing and I admire what you/ you guys do very much

 

when i had a 2.0 with FP Red and Kelford 272's, i did +5/+3 and got it spooling about 400rpm quicker but it needed 2psi more boost to keep the top end.

how did you not lose any top end with advancing the intake cam?
did the boost levels increase?

 

Like I said this is just how it panned out on my setup. I do not know why the things that usually happen did not on my car. I lost nothing anywhere and just gained power. then I tried to advance the cams any more it lost power, if I retarded the cams it lost power. Mixed and matched with advanced on one and retarded on another and nothing worked as well as the +3 and +4.

The boost did not increase at all. The boost stayed right around the same is not dropped a hair.

 

Nice gains for $300 --- But a boost leak test would have probablly gotten you 50+hp at 8k -- And that's free!!!!

 

Interesting results. The above comment has me thinking...why is the power falling off so hard after 7 grand?

 

no boost leaks Still trying to figure out the power dropping so hard.

 

You did title this thread "The great debate" ..... promise not to get mad?

 

So not trying to side with anyone, but why the fall off of power in the upper rpms. Don't FP Reds hold boost to like 8k.

 

Please go right a head. Im alway open to opinions I just have checked for boost leaks before. The boost does not drop at 26-27psi at all when I had the mbc on it. At 31 psi it will fall to about 27-28 by 8k with the mbc but this has the 19 psi actuator on it so I figure it has more to do with that. I now have it setup with ecu boost and it spikes 33 psi on high boost dropping to 31.
Wastegate duty cycles on 26-27 psi at 5k is 66% and at 8k 72 %. 33 psifalling to 31 5k is 81 % and 8k is 87%
*forgot to add after getting off the dyno I had to lower my duty cycles by about 5 percent all the way accross. For whatever reason the dyno required more duty cycle for the same boost. So all the numbers stated please take off 5 % and thats what there at on the street to reach the same boost.*

Any input and problems solved is greatly appreciated. Isnt that what message boards are for?

 

agreed power should NOT be falling off that quickly if at all.

What max timing do you hit by redline?

 

Strait pump 14 degrees, pump/meth 16 degrees. When upped to 17 it only picks up about 5 hp so I backed it back down to 16.

 

I don't mean to question your intelligence but your numbers go against what just about everybody else has seen on these cams. I do agree though, cam gears can be very beneficial. They make degreeing in the cams and checking valve clearances much easier when building a motor and they let you optimize the cam centerlines on the track for best performance if the cam card doesn't really work the best for your setup. Take these suggestions only as suggestions and not as an attack on you.

First, triple check your timing marks. It is pretty easy to get the EVO setup wrong. The cams want to rotate at TDC while setting the timing and it can make the marks look right when they aren't. Rotate the engine clockwise two full rotations before checking. If you go past TDC, don't back up, go clockwise two more turns until you get it right on.

Second, you sure you aren't getting the numbers flipped compared to how others are reporting the numbers? Honestly, the +/- thing bothers me and I simply state directly "advanced/retarded" to avoid confusion. You are purposing these cams work best at centerline angles 101* on the intake and 116* on the exhaust. Compare that to other cams on the market that are known performers:

Your's 101/116
Comp 280 104/112

GSC S2 107/113
FP4R 108/113
FP5R 110/114
GSC S3 109/115


Multiple people have reported the Comp 280s work best at 4* retarded on the intake side. On the exhaust side, I personally saw the best results "straight up" but the exhaust side does seem more setup dependent. Thus, my settings that offer the best top end on the 280s on my setup are:

Mine 108/112

Right inline with the other cams that work really well without killing low end (FP4R and GSC S2). I saw clear low end losses going to these settings though, in exchange for clear top end gains. The exhaust cam actually just showed losses either direction from straight up, which I found surprising but it is what I found. Here were my final results on wastegate spring pressure with the stock IX turbo. I tried many other settings, these were just the two that worked the best with 0/0 being the best powerband and -4/0 being the best for top end. The change in HP was observed with an AFR change on the wideband as well, the car went rich below 6500 and lean above 6500 on the -4/0 settings. Ignore below about 3500, I couldn't get a good low RPM start when I was testing and I was only concerned with 4000+ anyway so I didn't worry much about it. This test was on a "road dyno" with 2 runs in each direction on each cam, a total of 8 pulls within 30 minutes with careful care to make sure IATs and ECTs were within a tight range. This is also the average of all 4 pulls for each cam, not a "best vs. worst" type of thing or anything like that.