You are getting the swirl effect from the turbo itself. But the honeycomb is to slowdown the swirl affect as much as it can to get a better reading at the sensor.

Chris

 

The only nice thing about cast parts is that they are always the same with almost no varince in production. But I can't see it having better distibution of air over any other method of production if the design is the same with the same flow paterns of the cast unit. Please enlighten me if I'm missing somthing?

Cast end thanks have lots of benifits, IE no varince in production, Smooth curves, and packaging. IMHO

 

Well for most of the setups ut the (HKS RS) i seen what your saying and no i dont think that the temps are causing much more of a difference and if anythning you are getting hotter temps with the HKS setup then the stock setup due to the air duct. I think more of it is in the volume of air that is entering then anything else.

But as said above a true CAI could make a difference being outside of the engine bay and also being in the direct air path of oncoming air.

Chris

 

but that might not be the case. Because when the turbo compresses the air that 30f might not really affect the air temp going into the IC. But again I would agree having colder air going into the turbo would be best instead of hotter air but does it make a diffrence on a turbocharged car??

 

Endtanks IMO are the biggest part of a IC. The goal is to get the air in the middle of the IC and of course a wide enought area to not heat soak one spot of the IC. Best way to do this is with little tiny fins each with different angles to flow the air evenly across the IC. I have seen a cast IC endtank somewhere with this design.

This all brings us to the question of how beneficial a Water to Air setup would be? Sure you are able to lower temps below ambient temp but i could also seeing it being a problem at open throttle for long periods of time becouse it would not be able to cool the air fast enough before it hits the engine. Hmm how about a FMIC that is Water to Air. Anybody know where i can get one of those?

Chris

 

Here's what I'm thinking.

Get an HKS RS MAF tube and instead of putting on the HKS filter, put on the APS CAI. This way, flow would be smooth like the stock box, cooler than the stock box, and high flow like the HKS/APS.


The only reason I haven't done this is because I am worried about the adverse effects of such a long intake. Are there any? Are the benefits of a smooth, cool flow greater than the adverse effects of a long intake tube? I mean, it's already really freakin long, being a turbo. What do you think?

 

Chris, I Think you are right. However, lets think about it this way ( real life way).
Temp is 80 outside and the air that is going into the intake is 80 right? The turbo will heat that air no matter what to some point. Now lets say the temp outside is 100 and the air is going inside is 100 the turbo will still heat that air to about the same temp regardless of the 20F difference. My point here is what makes the most difference is the IC and how cold the air that is hitting it in the front. Of course you will loose power on 100F day but that does not mean you are loosing it because the air is going in the filter is hot, it means that the IC cant do a better job because the air that is cooling it is not cold enough or not = to 80F. Turbo cars get so hot to the point (1500F) that cold air intake or short ram won’t make a huge difference if any. The difference you see is because the IC is in a hotter environment all together. I hope you can see my point here because I am not sure if I did a good job explaining it.

 

Chris I think PWR makes one that's water to air. But to complecated for me man. I like it simple.

 

it wont make a difference on turbo cars except if you are living in saudi arabia in the middle of no where temps are well over 120F. the turbo is already so hot that 20F difference wont make you loose HP.. you will be loosing HP because your IC is in a hoter weather all together.

 

I think you should sell your intake and buy a 10.8 exhaust housing and use your stock box because that will make more power bang for the buck

 

I lost my internet access for a bit, got it back, and wow a lot of stuff to catch up on here...

PVD04 and I are definately seeing eye-to-eye on the flow dynamics happeing inside the MAFS sensor, intake, etc.

As far as the Intake temp not making a difference, it does, period. Heat transfer proves that fact. If your intake temp is 100 degrees, and heat added by the turbo is a fixed amount, lets say the turbo itself is at 300 degrees and the heat added by compressing the gas is responsible for another 100 degrees of temperature increase. The pressure driven temp increase will be the same regardles of intake temp.... 100 degree intake temp goes to 200 from compression, 50 degree goes to 150, etc. (no I know it's not that direct, but it's damn close) The fact that cool air is traveling over the hot surface of the turbo will also add heat. This heat transfer is driven by a number of things, one of which is the temperature differential. The farther the temps are apart, the faster the heat will transfer. So say your intake temp is 50 degrees and the turbo is 300, it will heat more than if your intake temp was 100 degrees and the turbo was 300. Regardless the end temp of the 50 degree intake charge will be lower than the end temp of the 100 degree intake charge, guaranteed.

Can we let the IC topic be for a bit, or start another thread about it?

"holy post" (sorry, that's funny)

I am willing to bet that the maximum flowrate meterable by the MAFS is not even remotely approached at stock boost levels. If the engine is running the same boost pressure, the flow rate should be the same, it won't be since the open element filter can flow more air, but I guarantee you it's not much higher than the stock flowrate. It takes a certain amount of air to make a certain manifold pressure.

If the volume of air was too great for the MAF to read it would be pinned at a single max voltage, it wouldn't oscillate at all, because it would be maxed out. That leads reason to say that, no, the aftermarket intake does not outflow the MAFS, but the oscillating signal is generated from an irregularity in flow.

It takes more than 1" of honeycomb to straighten out a flow moving at the velocity the intake air is moving at. Like PVD04 said, it's fluid dynamics, I can tell you who published my textbook and you can try to teach yourself, or you can take my word for it since I have a degree and aced the class (I know you won't)

Yes and No, if you reread my post that you quoted, you would understand my reasoning.

I can't even make this comparison, two different cars, two different tuners, maybe he had bad gas causing knock that made the graph rough, maybe he had fouled plugs that randomly misfired making a roung graph, there's no way to know, which is why we've all said you can't compare two different cars in two different places. Which is also why I believe my argument is very well founded, it is two different intakes dynoed on the same car, with the same gas, at the same place, the same day, 15 min apart (the time it took to swap intakes), on the same tune! One is smooth, one isn't, the intake is only thing that changed, so the intake is to blame for the erratic A/F graph.

I don't think it should either! But once again, my post about compensating for an oscillation, and what happens if that oscillation shifts explains why compensating for it with a tune could be a bad idea.

I havn't said "no you're wrong" without a reason yet.

- Steve

 

Ok I think we all agree colder air is always better

 

I see your point Myher and yes the biggest thing that will effect it is the heat that is outside. But once agian like you say the turbo is going to heat the air up anyway but why heat it up more then it has to. Either way the air that is going to enter the engine will be that much hotter if the air is getting sucked in that much hotter. You cant tell me that the turbo is going to heat all the air nomatter what to the same degree and then inject it into the IC. That is impossible.

Basically i think everybody has made there point about the temp of the air entering the engine. Yes it is better to have as cold of air enter the turbo as possible. Is it that beneficial on a turbo car? Probably not becouse of the heat the turbo will produce anyways that you wont see that much of a difference but the difference is there!!!

Chris

 

As the turbo compresses the incoming air, it does leave at a higher temperature. Again, cooler temps in = cooler temps out in this case.

 

Eric and Chris,

You guys know well that turbos are made and designed to withstand very very high temps well over 1000F. Lets say the air that is going in is 70F and in another example its 90F that 20F difference, that is nothing to make a difference because its not going to lower your turbo temp from 1000F to 980F right? Except if you live in Canada and the weather was 10F below even if that, that will help for few until our turbos are sooo hot again. On turbo cars we should focus on cooling the air after the turbo not before. Using bigger IC and WIK will do it.