Greddy Profec B Spec 2
HKS Super AFR
Dynoflash Mail in (soon to be Custom tune)
Helix 3" DP
Helix 3" TP
Greddy Ti exhaust
HKS 264/264 cams (stock cam gears)
TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T
Greddy FMIC V spl
MR Bov
SSautochrome manifold
Walbro 255 HP
HKS GDmax Clutch
Apexi Power Intake
HKS Ground wires
660 cc injectors (installing 12-9-04)

We have very close to the same mods. This should be for an interesting dyno comparison. I would prefer to do a comparison on the custom 93 tune that I will have. We both show up with our cars on empty. We go to the same GOOD gas station and put 93 octane in. Drive to the dyno and do the test. This takes out alot of the variability in the test.

If you want, we can drain the 93 out somehow and put some race gas in and tune the air fuels a little bit and check how my 93 tune/ Super AFR combo tune compares to your Xede race gas tune. It will take quite a few runs for me to get mine tuned in for race gas though. You already have a tune for that, I am sure.

I agree with you on the street thing. I just figured around Atlanta's beltway we would just be blending in at 90 mph!!

We can go to Commerce or you can come up to Rockingham and do the drag racing part of the comparison. Just wouldn't quite be fair if you have the stock clutch though.

BTW, I love the new SSautochrome and new turbo setup. Even though my turbo is a used one. Does your make a deeper groaning sound at WOT full boost than te stock turbo did??

Brian

 

Not an argument...I did not even write it. I just thought it would add quality to the thread.
I suggest you go back and re-read......I know it is long...but it is interesting

 

heh, I find its a double edged sword to post sometimes.. If you simplify it too much, people jump all over your technical points, if you give too much explanation, nobody reads it anyway..

I remember that text (Dyno4mance's passage) in some form in one of the "How to Make Horsepower" books I have.. Its nice you found that online somewhere, it explains that you CAN measure horsepower, its just not as easy as measuring torque.. It just happens to be that if it rotates, you are likely measuring torque and converting to horsepower, not directly measuring horsepower.

 

I was assuming if you posted it, then you probably felt it was true.

This was the sentence I was referring to in your POST..

In the dynometer world, torque(aka energy or work) is what is alway measured. It is measured at instanteous moments in time. The change in Energy per unit time is the horsepower term that we speak of so often.

Shiv said that the Dynojet derives HP from the spinning of the drum.. All dyno must derive energy/work to get power.

The spinning of a weighted drum is a very good way of doing it.. As long as you know the mass of the drum and the rotational radius of mass, you can calculate the Energy transfered to the system per unit of time. As long as there is no slipping between the wheels and drum. This is infact power from its definition.

That was a very informing quote that you had in your post. Looking forward to coming to your Dyno down there.

Brian

 

This thread is nothing but very informational and revealing on alot of levels though.. Eh?

 

The only thing that could possibly suck is the fact that Georgia runs reformulated gas. I know Tennessee doesn't and don't think North Carolina does either. There's a Phillips 66 station down there I trust, though. We'll get that part figured out and you can be the one who decides where/how we get our fuel, etc. One cool thing about the dyno is that everything will be seen- Air:fuel, boost, and horsepower and torque at every point throughout the rev band.

What do you think about that Profec B? How much boost are you able to run and hold? That fact with the bigger injectors might really help you out.

I agree with you on the clutch thing, too. I don't think I'd have a chance against an aftermarket unit with the OE one on the car on the strip.

I did my turbo and manifold at the same time. I expected to hear a sound difference, but never did.

This will be fun.

 

IMHO there is way to much reliance on dynamometer’s as an accurate measure of anything but change. Why? As far as I know, there is no standard for calibration and testing. Different dyno types generate numbers all over the map and are not even consistent within the same dyno types. Additionally, there are many variables that the "tester" can either overtly or covertly fiddle with to "optimize" the peak readings, even though Peak HP is a useless number.

From an engineering standpoint, it does not make any difference if a dynamometer measures HP or torque or joules per fortnight. The only parameter of interest is the change in the tuners chosen attributes before and after fiddling with car. Safety issues are resolved and addressed by monitoring gizmos such as O2 and knock sensors and AFR thingy’s. There is a benefit from matching a high resolution after market piggyback or stand alone with a dyno capable of resolving incremental changes. I’ll forever argue that the only attribute a dynamometer can accurately measure is change on the same car, same day. And that is an important attribute.

The dyno is an excellent tuning tool and made more valuable in the hands of an experienced technician or engineer. It saves time and allows a controlled environment for testing change. Also, I would not dismiss the value of road tuning, particularly when it is performed by an experienced tech or engineer safely. Its value is also directly proportional to the experience of the tech or engineer tuning the car. It appears from this thread that most of our tuners use both as the situation presents. In either case, our cars are performing exceptionally in competitive situations.


Speedlimit...

 

Was this C16 map made with tuning off of your DynoDynamics dyno? Or was it just made guessing what timing and fuel requirements would work with C16?

Assuming the maps were made off of the dyno, why didn't you notice the ignition weakness?

 

The car was dynoed twice on the DD UNIT....on two different ocassions.
Both times the car put down about 470 WHP, with no aparent misfire present.

 

Perhaps the weakness lies elsewhere, not with the ignition.
My somewhat researched guess ,from speaking with several reputable and unbiased tuners, is the stock ECU,MAF and piggyback at these power levels are a bit "incapable"; shall we say.

The standalone I'm upgrading to should take care of it all.

Anyways,

 

Actually, it's not off topic. I'm just adding to this street tune vs Dyno tune. You had your car dyno tuned, on a load bearing dyno no less, and yet the misfire didn't show up. In the real world, it did show up.

When Al did my flash, we set out tuning in 3rd gear. Right when we were about done, we decided to do a complete run through from 1st to 4th, simulating a pass at the strip.

Well, each time we shifted gears, there was a bit of hesitation, a slight misfire. Something that we would have never noticed if just doing pulls on the dyno.

Now, I'm sure there's a bit more power (maybe 5hp) up at the very top that could be better tuned with a dyno, but overall......... his street tune rocks.

And to answer the post about needing a SAFC-II to utilize race gas...............wrong. Al offers that Dual flash. I'm tuned for 25 psi on 100oct. When the boost is lowered down to the 21 psi I run on the street, I probably give up about 10 hp over an optimized 21 psi tune. Well worth it, IMO.

 

Man, I don't like that dual map idea. The SAFCII would be a better race gas alternative, IMO.

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't let this otherwise interesting thread turn into the "Hey, I took some algebra and physics too, so check this out!" festival that torque and horsepower forum conversations always seem to turn into.

I know people really like to demonstrate heady concepts like functions and rates of change, but it's really not a major topic here. Please no rambling about "area under the curve" either.

 

Yes, except all the load cells leading up to that top row are programmed as if you're running street gas. So much for spool, partial throttle, etc.

 

The dyno mapping was tuned right to the edge of the ignition systems ability to bridge the spark plug gap. Any tuner who has done this will attest to the fact that the stock system runs out of spark around 30psi. If boost exceeds that by just 1psi, you will run into misfire. Now fastforward to the drag stip where temps are cooler, air is denser (and cleaner) and it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to see what what happen. Especially when your boost gauge only goes to 30psi and you've changed a boost pill the night before your run.

Of course, the MAF/ECU limition theory is a lot more dramatic, albeit a bit unsupported by anyone who has actually done the testing.

shiv