My car has a GT35R, not the stocker. I also have 272 cams.

 

i guess it woudl be helpful if you post up the strange thing and or your own timing curve through a set amount of boost.
-James

 

Well I will find a timing curve from what I am asking about and this is my timing curve....
RPM is the first column obviously and MY timing is the column that starts at +16.0


3531,+26.8, 542,100, 10, 00, +23.7, 17.4,+16.0, +5.3, 75.00, 322
3619,+26.6, 542,100, 10, 00, +22.7, 18.3,+16.0, +6.5, 75.00, 473
3703,+26.8, 640,100, 10, 00, +21.6, 18.9,+16.0, +7.4, 75.00, 343
3766,+26.8, 650,100, 10, 00, +19.9, 20.1,+15.9, +8.0, 75.00, 343
3871,+26.8, 725,100, 10, 00, +18.9, 20.9,+15.7, +8.0, 75.00, 798
3949,+26.8, 750,100, 10, 00, +17.9, 22.4,+15.3, +8.0, 75.00, 801
4016,+26.8, 691,100, 10, 00, +16.8, 23.9,+15.0, +8.0, 75.00, 555
4115,+26.8, 786,100, 10, 00, +15.1, 27.1,+14.5, +8.0, 75.00, 483
4203,+26.8, 821,100, 10, 00, +12.8, 30.5,+14.1, +8.0, 75.00, 520
4363,+26.8,1016,100, 10, 00, +14.0, 33.4,+13.7, +5.8, 75.00, 988
4450,+26.8,1072,100, 20, 00, +13.1, 40.2,+13.0, +3.6, 75.00, 778
4559,+26.6,1250,100, 20, 00, +10.9, 45.4,+13.0, +1.8, 75.00, 838
4734,+26.6,1285,100, 20, 00, +8.9, 48.6,+13.0, +0.2, 75.00,1225
4909,+26.6,1461,100, 30, 00, +8.8, 55.8,+12.4, -2.0, 75.00,1315
5112,+26.8,1677,100, 40, 00, +7.1, 66.7,+12.0, -1.6, 75.00,1497
5291,+26.6,2252,100, 40, 00, +3.3, 83.0,+12.0, +1.0, 75.00,1269
5500,+26.6,1923,100, 50, 00, +1.6, 73.4,+12.0, +3.4, 75.00,1760
5737,+26.6,2293,100, 60, 00, +3.1, 78.1,+12.0, +7.8, 75.00,1798
5952,+26.3,2358,100, 60, 00, +3.5, 80.7,+12.0, +7.2, 75.00,1760
6161,+26.8,2427,100, 70, 00, +7.5, 84.0,+12.3, +5.1, 75.00,1865
6361,+26.8,2551,100, 70, 00, +8.6, 86.0,+12.8, +3.0, 75.00,1908
6523,+26.8,2525,100, 70, 00, +10.5, 87.4,+13.7, +0.8, 75.00,1773
6720,+26.8,2500,100, 70, 00, +12.6, 87.9,+15.8, -0.4, 75.00,1724
6915,+26.6,2538,100, 80, 00, +15.9, 90.3,+16.6, -0.5, 75.00,1773
7122,+26.8,2659,100, 80, 00, +16.5, 91.2,+17.3, -1.2, 75.00,1923
7342,+26.8,2747,100, 80, 00, +17.7, 88.9,+18.2, -1.7, 75.00,1923
7524,+26.8,2717,100, 80, 00, +17.6, 90.2,+19.1, -1.9, 75.00,1838
7645,+26.6,2762,100, 80, 02, +18.6, 90.0,+19.9, -1.7, 75.00,1838

 

To give you an idea of what I am asking about... assume that when my timing hits the 12.0 make it so it holds exactly 12.0 all the way up to redline instead of slowly increasing like mine does right now and then tell me why people do it

 

I also just noticed something strange... if you look at the maf readings (Start at 542 and end with 2762) I lose some hertz around the same time i am losing the power on my dyno sheet. Obviously for some reason I am losing some airflow in that range... could that be the cams not kicking in yet? The intake manifold? What would cause this strange anomoly?? Now i got a whole new thing to try to fix on this damn pos car

The RPM range that it loses maf readings are 6.5-6.7k which I can also see a dip in the HP in that area. This is strange now....

 

maybe it's your wastegate opening fully

 

The wastegate opens much earlier than that. I can hear it when it is fully open (Gated externally) so its not that but good idea definately

 

What are you using for fuel control? Are you still with the AFC-II?
From 4700 to 6500 timing is being held at 12*, that's a long time, too long if your still with the AFC.
What are you logging with? Can you remove some of the columns and just display RPM's, timing, and O2's?
This was at WOT too right?

 

Nah, that's a UTEC log.

I can't believe this is not knocking. The ECU wants 1.6°, you're running 12° and there's no knock count. You did say this was on pump gas, right? Where did you hit full boost on this pull?

Also, it's been a while since I used the UTEC, what are the readings in the right column? Scaled MAS Hz or something? They just seems odd compared to actual readings, so maybe there's an issue in the translation.

For instance:
6361,+26.8,2551,100, 70, 00, +8.6, 86.0,+12.8, +3.0, 75.00,1908
6523,+26.8,2525,100, 70, 00, +10.5, 87.4,+13.7, +0.8, 75.00,1773
6720,+26.8,2500,100, 70, 00, +12.6, 87.9,+15.8, -0.4, 75.00,1724
6915,+26.6,2538,100, 80, 00, +15.9, 90.3,+16.6, -0.5, 75.00,1773
7122,+26.8,2659,100, 80, 00, +16.5, 91.2,+17.3, -1.2, 75.00,1923

Note that the 50Hz you're losing between 6361 and 6720 in the actual column is like 2% where the 1908->1724 drop in the last col is like 10%. If the UTEC is working off of the Hz in that last column, there's something to look at.

A lot of those right column numbers seems weird and if that's a scaled MAS Hz the ECU is using, that would definitely be making an bigger impact than the actual values in column 3. Notice in the last 4 records, some of the last column readings are the same for big differences in actual MAS readings.

I'd ask Malibu since he has more experience with the UTEC than I do, but maybe you should be concentrating on the scaled numbers and not the actuals. That's definitely not the only spot it's moving around, so maybe it's just an intake issue.

 

Yes it is scaled Maf on the right. I have it locked at that timing to reduce knock. The ECU may have been in a knock map at that time... normally it wants more around 6-7 degrees. I had it knocking a little bit before I got the tune better.

The reason the scaling is different in the last column is directly because of the fuel column two over to the left of the scaled maf readout.. starts at +3 and ends at -1.2 That is what is changing the far right column. The real readings from the maf are the 2551 to 2659.

This is on 110 gas but the timing really isnt all that different from my race gas to pump gas map. I just need to lean it out alot more and turn the boost up and it runs pretty good. Plugs foul about every 3 days of running race gas though.

 

Just for fun... this is a log from pump gas with three people in the car. The timing is still MUCH more advanced than the Ecu stock would want. If you look at what a base flash type thing would get you is normally around 8-10 degrees... mine is about 11-12. It doesnt knock at these settings either so screw it


, , , , Load,Knock, , , Mod, Mod,, Mod
RPM, MAP, MAF, TPS,Site,Count, Ign#1, Inj#1, Ign, Fuel,Boost, MAF
, psia, Hz, % , , , deg , duty , deg, % ,(OL) , Hz
2721,+26.8, 232, 24, 00, 00, +34.5, 9.9,ECU. , +5.0,ECU. , 210
2725,+26.8, 259, 24, 00, 00, +34.4, 9.7,ECU. , +5.0,ECU. , 250
2766,+26.3, 330, 43, 10, 00, +27.7, 10.3,ECU. , +1.2, 75.00, 197
2839,+26.6, 315,100, 10, 00, +27.7, 10.4,ECU. , +1.2, 75.00, 320
2878,+26.6, 330,100, 10, 00, +27.8, 10.9,ECU. , +2.4, 75.00, 268
2918,+26.3, 334,100, 10, 00, +27.8, 11.6,ECU. , +3.6, 75.00, 239
3003,+26.8, 358,100, 10, 00, +27.8, 12.2,ECU. , +6.0, 75.00, 294
3069,+26.6, 365,100, 10, 00, +27.9, 12.7,ECU. , +6.0, 75.00, 262
3109,+26.8, 395,100, 10, 00, +26.8, 13.2,ECU. , +6.0, 75.00, 335
3174,+26.6, 407,100, 10, 00, +26.8, 13.6,ECU. , +6.0, 75.00, 380
3252,+26.3, 426,100, 10, 00, +26.8, 14.7,ECU. , +5.9, 75.00, 360
3320,+26.3, 446,100, 10, 00, +26.8, 15.1,ECU. , +5.6, 75.00, 284
3394,+26.3, 474,100, 10, 00, +25.7, 15.8,ECU. , +5.4, 75.00, 352
3472,+26.6, 501,100, 10, 00, +25.7, 16.4,ECU. , +7.7, 75.00, 444
3557,+25.9, 530,100, 10, 00, +24.7, 17.3,ECU. , +5.6, 75.00, 593
3642,+26.3, 551,100, 10, 00, +22.7, 18.3,ECU. , +6.5, 75.00, 649
3745,+25.9, 652,100, 10, 00, +21.6, 19.5,ECU. , +8.0, 75.00, 293
3840,+25.9, 677,100, 10, 00, +19.9, 20.9,ECU. , +8.0, 75.00, 801
3944,+26.3, 754,100, 10, 00, +18.9, 22.2,ECU. , +8.0, 75.00, 554
4025,+26.3, 722,100, 10, 00, +17.4, 25.0,ECU. , +8.0, 75.00, 634
4125,+26.6, 747,100, 10, 00, +15.4, 28.2,ECU. , +8.0, 75.00, 455
4230,+26.6, 834,100, 10, 00, +13.6, 31.6,ECU. , +8.0, 75.00, 537
4380,+26.3,1012,100, 10, 00, +12.8, 37.9,ECU. , +6.8, 75.00, 988
4474,+26.6,1118,100, 20, 00, +11.9, 41.8,+11.5, +5.1, 75.00, 781
4662,+26.3,1250,100, 20, 00, +9.7, 48.5,+11.6, +5.3, 75.00,1050
4796,+26.3,1404,100, 30, 00, +8.2, 55.4,+11.7, +5.1, 75.00,1131
4982,+26.1,1497,100, 30, 00, +8.3, 59.9,+12.1, +5.6, 75.00,1201
5128,+26.3,1838,100, 40, 00, +8.2, 65.1,+12.9, +8.7, 75.00,1351
5324,+26.6,1582,100, 40, 00, +7.0, 57.7,+13.7,+11.3, 75.00,1736
5482,+26.6,1811,100, 40, 00, +3.7, 67.8,+14.1,+12.6, 75.00,1479
5717,+26.8,1930,100, 50, 00, +8.5, 68.5,+14.1,+12.6, 75.00,1602
5878,+26.6,1851,100, 50, 00, +9.2, 68.7,+14.7,+13.1, 75.00,1644
6049,+26.6,1923,100, 50, 00, +9.0, 74.4,+15.4,+12.9, 75.00,1644
6207,+26.3,1893,100, 50, 00, +11.3, 75.8,+15.8,+11.1, 75.00,1700
6397,+26.3,2083,100, 50, 00, +12.5, 77.5,+17.2,+10.0, 75.00,1633
6587,+26.3,2109,100, 60, 00, +13.7, 79.9,+18.0, +8.9, 75.00,1602
6761,+26.3,2164,100, 60, 00, +15.6, 80.9,+18.3, +7.9, 75.00,1811
6944,+26.3,2155,100, 60, 00, +17.6, 81.1,+18.8, +7.8, 75.00,1736
7107,+26.3,2222,100, 60, 00, +18.7, 82.7,+19.5, +7.7, 75.00,1798
7230,+26.8,2212,100, 60, 00, +18.8, 83.9,+20.2, +7.5, 75.00,1736
7390,+26.8,2293,100, 70, 00, +19.7, 85.2,+20.0, +7.5, 75.00,1851
7558,+26.8,2272,100, 70, 00, +19.9, 85.1,+20.1, +7.5, 75.00,1851

 

Yeah, I saw the fuel changes, but that Hz drop in the last column is not accounted for by it. The fuel tuning is some of it, but not much. Between 6361 and 6720, fuel (and Hz) is reduced 3.2% in tuning, but actual change in the scaled Hz is -10%. Also notice in the last 2 records, going from -0.8% to -1.2% fuel, the scaled Hz still goes up from 1773 to 1923...a big jump.

It seems like something else is going on there that has little to do with your fuel tuning and that could be a lean spot because of it. Whether you change the MAS Hz (fuel tuning) or it changes on it's own (misreadings from an intake or something), that directly impacts the fueling. Does your AFR stay constant through that or does it get a little leaner? If that drop in Hz between 6250-6750 is repeatable, I might try adding some fuel there and see if your power picks up. Is your boost steady? I see in the pump gas log that the Hz are all over the place too.

That pump gas timing is more what I would expect to see. I see it still has the same retard at 5250-5500 that mine (and most) have with higher than stock boost on pump gas. It's really annoying. Nice to see that you can run 13-14° there even though the ECU wants to run a lot less...I run about 10° there, but I am a wuss

 

It seems to work fine. Some of the hertz situations are the plugs being fouled. I cant remember which logs I have are with fouled plugs. The First Hertz column is what the true hertz is. The last column is just what it is crapping out to the ECU... it really doesnt effect anything to me except in low rpm/low load which they are consistant there.

I suspect the reason a small percent change in the fuel = a greater change in total maf is because I have it all scaled to 725 for my injectors. Stock is scaled at something like 550 (And it is not exactly a linear scale either... I have to richen alot up on the pump map even though the injectors are truly 780cc).

And yes, the AF/R is right where I want it.. very smooth as well. It goes from around 11.0 at 5k and slowly climbs to about 11.4 at 6k and from there it goes up to around 11.9 by 7.25k

The other problem is the logger isnt very fast therefore makes it much tougher to see what is really going on. If I could find a better tuning spot I could do 4th gear pulls which would help read the logs MUCH better.

 

Still wondering if anyone has any insight on why some people lock thier timing

 

I guess those people who knows doesn't want to speak up

FWIW, my old Autronic map was running at 14 deg by 5500RPm and hold till rev limiter.