E85 Ethanol in a WRX. Good INFO for EVO?
I like the idea of our fuel $$$ staying right here in the good old USA with E85.
MalibuJack thank you for posting in this thread. I like reading the INFO you post.
MalibuJack thank you for posting in this thread. I like reading the INFO you post.
I have a comment. Adding the now required 10% ethanol in fuel kills gas mileage. Which means you have to use/buy more gas. the fuel burned has less emissions. However, your using more fuel, so the emissions add up anyway. Plus you have to buy more fuel as well since your gas mileage went down, contributing to the oil companies.
Turbo diesels from Europe get 50 mpg, sell the hummer and F350.
Turbo diesels from Europe get 50 mpg, sell the hummer and F350.
Evolved Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 685
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From: Long Beach, CA
While you use more Ethanol than you would gasoline, a proper tune for ethanol will help balance the need out quite a bit. Also, the emissions from an ethanol burning car is far less even when burning enough to equal similar power.
You cannot even compare the two when it comes to emissions.
Personally, i think we need to get going on ethanol technology as fast as we can. Bush has greatly increased funding for alternative fuels and is creating tax incentives for companies to research and produce alternative fuels. I'm all for that considering our need to get our $$$ out of the middle east so we can just pull back and watch the region destroy itself like they seem to do so well.
You cannot even compare the two when it comes to emissions.
Personally, i think we need to get going on ethanol technology as fast as we can. Bush has greatly increased funding for alternative fuels and is creating tax incentives for companies to research and produce alternative fuels. I'm all for that considering our need to get our $$$ out of the middle east so we can just pull back and watch the region destroy itself like they seem to do so well.
Originally Posted by Andrew LB
While you use more Ethanol than you would gasoline, a proper tune for ethanol will help balance the need out quite a bit. Also, the emissions from an ethanol burning car is far less even when burning enough to equal similar power.
You cannot even compare the two when it comes to emissions.
Personally, i think we need to get going on ethanol technology as fast as we can. Bush has greatly increased funding for alternative fuels and is creating tax incentives for companies to research and produce alternative fuels. I'm all for that considering our need to get our $$$ out of the middle east so we can just pull back and watch the region destroy itself like they seem to do so well.
You cannot even compare the two when it comes to emissions.
Personally, i think we need to get going on ethanol technology as fast as we can. Bush has greatly increased funding for alternative fuels and is creating tax incentives for companies to research and produce alternative fuels. I'm all for that considering our need to get our $$$ out of the middle east so we can just pull back and watch the region destroy itself like they seem to do so well.
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
Methanol is more frequently used in Alky kits, Denatured alcohol, or any other alcohol or washer fluid, or even a mix of water and alky are also frequently used.
In response to the other question.. given your using a stock map, on a stock car, your 550cc injectors would be about 20% lean or so to run E85, but if you upgraded to 660 or 680's, then you "Should" be able to run E85 without even retuning.
The great thing about turbo cars, and tunable ECU's are as long as the components aren't sensitive to the corrosive nature of alcohol, then the car will run fine..
I *REALLY* would want to get my car filled with E85 one day and build a map for it..
With a normally aspirated car you can run alky by just upgrading your injectors to a size large enough to correctly get your ECU back into its happy place.
Don't get me wrong, as this becomes more popular, we'll find the hurdles, such as issues with the Evap system and whatnot that were mentioned earlier.. but if you can get your car converted, and certified as a "Clean air" vehicle there are benefits, tax break, even use the HOV lane without carpool riders in some states..
In response to the other question.. given your using a stock map, on a stock car, your 550cc injectors would be about 20% lean or so to run E85, but if you upgraded to 660 or 680's, then you "Should" be able to run E85 without even retuning.
The great thing about turbo cars, and tunable ECU's are as long as the components aren't sensitive to the corrosive nature of alcohol, then the car will run fine..
I *REALLY* would want to get my car filled with E85 one day and build a map for it..
With a normally aspirated car you can run alky by just upgrading your injectors to a size large enough to correctly get your ECU back into its happy place.
Don't get me wrong, as this becomes more popular, we'll find the hurdles, such as issues with the Evap system and whatnot that were mentioned earlier.. but if you can get your car converted, and certified as a "Clean air" vehicle there are benefits, tax break, even use the HOV lane without carpool riders in some states..
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
It shouldn't affect much, you might be a little down on power until you do a good retune specific to the ethanol, but you gain alot more with good tuning. Your MPG will go down because you use more alcohol than gasoline.. If cruise AFR is 14.7 for gasoline, its about 9 (to 1) for Ethanol (about 9.5 for E85) What this means is when your cruising around there's 14.7 parts air for one part gasoline, and 9.5 parts air for 1 part E85..
Last edited by trinydex; Apr 27, 2006 at 04:52 PM.
Originally Posted by Ludikraut
Anytime you are running at WOT, you are definitely NOT worried about fuel costs. But ignoring that, if I can make more power and have cleaner emissions, all for a slight decrease in MPG, which is (generally) offset by the cheaper fuel, then I'll gladly take that tradeoff. You are talking about theory and not real world applications and, surprisingly, even at cruise the theory does not hold up to what has been measured.
To quote: "Although E85 contains only 72% of the energy on a gallon for gallon basis compared to gasoline, experimenters have seen much better fuel mileage than this difference in energy content implies. Many automotive writers and columnists suggest that because of the lower energy content, you should expect an equivalent 39% increase in fuel usage. This has not been observed in practice when running gasoline and ethanol blends. Some of the newest model FFV's get only about 7% less mileage per gallon of fuel of E85 compared to their gasoline fuel mileage."
l8r)
To quote: "Although E85 contains only 72% of the energy on a gallon for gallon basis compared to gasoline, experimenters have seen much better fuel mileage than this difference in energy content implies. Many automotive writers and columnists suggest that because of the lower energy content, you should expect an equivalent 39% increase in fuel usage. This has not been observed in practice when running gasoline and ethanol blends. Some of the newest model FFV's get only about 7% less mileage per gallon of fuel of E85 compared to their gasoline fuel mileage."
l8r)
Originally Posted by evoracerx
I have a comment. Adding the now required 10% ethanol in fuel kills gas mileage. Which means you have to use/buy more gas. the fuel burned has less emissions. However, your using more fuel, so the emissions add up anyway. Plus you have to buy more fuel as well since your gas mileage went down, contributing to the oil companies.
Turbo diesels from Europe get 50 mpg, sell the hummer and F350.
Turbo diesels from Europe get 50 mpg, sell the hummer and F350.
Originally Posted by Andrew LB
While you use more Ethanol than you would gasoline, a proper tune for ethanol will help balance the need out quite a bit. Also, the emissions from an ethanol burning car is far less even when burning enough to equal similar power.
You cannot even compare the two when it comes to emissions.
Personally, i think we need to get going on ethanol technology as fast as we can. Bush has greatly increased funding for alternative fuels and is creating tax incentives for companies to research and produce alternative fuels. I'm all for that considering our need to get our $$$ out of the middle east so we can just pull back and watch the region destroy itself like they seem to do so well.
You cannot even compare the two when it comes to emissions.
Personally, i think we need to get going on ethanol technology as fast as we can. Bush has greatly increased funding for alternative fuels and is creating tax incentives for companies to research and produce alternative fuels. I'm all for that considering our need to get our $$$ out of the middle east so we can just pull back and watch the region destroy itself like they seem to do so well.
some information that hinders this 'idealistic' view.
Originally Posted by EVOIXMR8916
and btw how are the headlights without hid's
I really love my EB_IX!!! I'm glad I did not get the GG_IX_MR that I was hell bent on getting. The IX felt stiffer and a little more agressive on the test drive then the MR.
But, it was the BLUE that really SOLD me.
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 203
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From: Midland Mich
I run my CRX turbo on E-85 and then also have a map for pump gas. The stuff is great due to the oxygen in the fuel and it charge cools too. but you use alot more fuel when you run they say 30% but the map shows more like 35% more fuel but here i can buy the fuel by the 55gallon drum for 2.27 a gallon which is much cheaper then race gas buy you will need a system like vishnu exed that has a switch for 2 different maps. you will also need a 40% or more larger fuel system. on the Honda i have to replace chips every time on my hondata when i want to run a different fuel which is a real pain in the a$$.
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Midland Mich
Originally Posted by evoracerx
I have a comment. Adding the now required 10% ethanol in fuel kills gas mileage. Which means you have to use/buy more gas. the fuel burned has less emissions. However, your using more fuel, so the emissions add up anyway. Plus you have to buy more fuel as well since your gas mileage went down, contributing to the oil companies.
Turbo diesels from Europe get 50 mpg, sell the hummer and F350.
Turbo diesels from Europe get 50 mpg, sell the hummer and F350.
This is really not how it works because what comes off ethanol when it burns is different then gas. With Ethanol when you burn it you are just completing the carbon cycle, which is just like anything decomposing and rotting in a compost pile, but you do it fast and capture the energy. The problem with Gas is it is digging carbon up that is under the ground that the earth cannot recycle by to oxygen. So we could burn as much 100% Ethanol as we want and it would not upset the carbon cycle but burning gas from under the ground adds more carbon then we have plants to recycle it back to oxygen.
but i am with you the biodiesel and small turbo diesels are really good and the way to go.
this is the difference between open loop energy sources (gasoline) and closed loop energy sources (alcohol).
what's even better about corn is you can REPOSIT carbon underground by burrying the husks and roots so they turn into oil in a kabillion years
what's even better about corn is you can REPOSIT carbon underground by burrying the husks and roots so they turn into oil in a kabillion years
Originally Posted by trinydex
this is the difference between open loop energy sources (gasoline) and closed loop energy sources (alcohol).
what's even better about corn is you can REPOSIT carbon underground by burrying the husks and roots so they turn into oil in a kabillion years
what's even better about corn is you can REPOSIT carbon underground by burrying the husks and roots so they turn into oil in a kabillion years
