Keep in mind, 409 stainless steel has some iron content in it so the magnet will stick.

but at the same time, the quality is still there even though it doesn't have the 304 stainless "Look" to it........

But you know what bothers me more than this.................

I don't get why so many vendors are out there to "Expose" the defects of other products......

Why don't you guys just bank on the fact that your products are built with good quality and promote yours rather than crack on all the rest...........

it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Stainless steels are "corrosion/rust resistant" not corrosion/rust proof. Again, the surface oxidation does not affect the "bulk" property of the material.

To remove the surface rust, use concentration nitric acid HNO3(~70%) on the rust spot. That treated part will not rust again, why....because the iron is removed leaving chrome/nickel rich surface.

 

Slowcar, will that cause any kind of surface deformities? Like a satin finish vs. shiny? (not meaning that it would be bad, actually, it might look pretty good)

 

interesting debate.here's my take on it:
buschur makes some awesome parts, and they cost money. their product will probably outlast the ebay exhausts, but in 4 years from now with summer/winter driving, their exhaust will look just as filthy as the ebay one, just won't have started to rust(we assume). either way, both exhausts are going to outlast either the owner's time with the car or the need to have that brand exhaust on the car(in most cases). ask around and I am sure that you will find many on the forums on 2-3 different exhaust systems, not because they are worn out/rusting but wanting to try something different, or are doing a built motor/turbo upgrade and replace them, or selling the cars and going back to stock.
I would like to see some unbiased tests(not from al as he is in the buschur camp and I don't think he will come off as being credible and unbiased no matter the results) and show the real power difference on the cars. my guess is that the buschur will make more power. how much? maybe 5-8whp. now look at the price and you decide. some will opt to pay the extra 2-4bills for buschur for the power, and some will not.

I would hope that we are all educated consumers and know that if you are buying a $300 turboback on ebay, you know that there's a reason it's $300, but that doesn't mean that it won't make power like a $700 exhaust.
I can appreciate al wanting to bring this to our attention, but unfortunately with all of al's posts on this sort of stuff, it is always buschur this and buschur that. probably time to give it a rest.

 

when treated with HNO3, and material being removed, in this case rust/iron, the surface of the material will "appear" more satin like due to roughing at the microscopic level.

 

Bring the books, I'll bring the tools. Bring your car and I'll bring mine. The debate will be over.

You're bringing up DSM's and why they do or do not respect me is hilarious. I'd venture to bet you a member of NABR.

 

^70% concentrated Nitric acid?

Wow, just be sure to wear gloves and eye protection. You might melt your skin or clothes if you get it on you.

 

Moderators, please lock this thread, well it's Al's so it's up to him.

I am done contributing anything worthwhile to this site.

 

what debate are we alking about here, how hard it is to cut SS? i think we got tha fact that some exhausts may or may not be full SS, and may claim they are. thats a good call. if u ask me, threads like these become pissing contests, thats it. i mean come on ur questioning if hes a member of NABR, whatever that is. i think i can speak for EVOM when i say that we want to see the BR vs EBAY exhaust results. u have all the respect from us here, we know u make remarkable parts and do the research to back it up. lets see the results.

 

I really think that some people are very hung up emotionally on their chinese made cheap purchases even to the extent to defy facts of natural laws.

I dont really care which exhuast you buy.

My purpose in posting my series of threads of this subject has been to educate many Evo owners that i speak with that an exhuast is NOT an exhuast - there are well made high quality ones with good design and there are cheap ones made to a price and there are those in between

If some of the writers in this thread "do not care" that an exhuast advertized as being full "304 stainless construction" is in fact equiped with chrome plated mild steel flanges - then that is your decision to make - not mine

I was simply showing a magnet and giving "the community" a way to test out the metal in their exhuasts

So far the made in USA units which have passed the test

Buschur
AMS
XS Enginerring
Thermal R & D
Perrin

A handful of no name and branded China and Taiwan mande units have failed

To me it comes as a complete suprize how much controvesy this post is generating


Like my previous thread "the beer can test" - either a beer can fits or not - in this case either you got stainless or mild steel - or what ever

 

Good point


I want to clarify - this magnet test is something I never thought about till recently and it came as a total shock to me that many china made goods used inferior grades of stainless and mild steel

When in discussion with many olf my customers I realized they did not know - it was time to buy a magnet

INFORMATION is your friend - do with it what you like

Eductaed and informed consumers are less likely to spend money on something they did not want

 

David,

I'm not saying that it can't be difficult to do some things with SS. The thing is you just have to take your time. I am only doing one off **** for me not mass producing stuff. It wasn't a big deal for me. I just clamped my SS plate in the mill vise, set the mill on slow, used a little coolant and used some oil. It really wasn't a big deal. Then I used the chop saw with coolant to dice up my flanges. From their I trimmed with the bandsaw. Then I finished it up with the belt sander.

Do you really cut all your flanges in house like this? I'd be giving them to a facility to cut them out with a laser or water jet. Thats the way to go. Going this route stainless steel should provide no problem.

 

Man, Dave I was just writing because I dont personally like Al because he is a mean person and wanted to make sure he knew he wasnt the genius he thinks he is

As for Stainless being so hard to work with.. well compared to many types of metal yes it is tougher but not exactly tougher than mild steel. Keep in mind that Chromoly Steel IS Mild Steel Chromoly is pretty tough stuff. On top of that it isnt exactly like making an exhaust requires any machining from the vendors usually anyways. They buy water cut flanges from somewhere... I dont know for sure but I dont believe there is any difference in cutting with a laser or water jet compared to most mild steels. Anyways not trying to be an *** but I figured Id clarify.

As far as exhausts are concerned yes, I would personally insist on getting a full stainless exhaust. As for as machining using the good ol tools yes, stainless is harder and more expensive then doing it with the grade steel the non-stainless flanges are probably made from. I just really dont like it when Big Al tries to write like he knows it all. I cant stand it. This is still the guy that told me he couldnt reflash my car because it had a fuel pressure regulator on it

 

I like my Skunk 2 catback. It passed the mag test Als talking about... I only got it because it didnt lose any power or torque below 3k rpm on some Turbo mag exhaust shootout. I remember Buschur saying he wasnt invited or something like that or they didnt even ask him to attend. It would have been interesting to see how his stacked up against all the other vendors in the Turbo shootout too so I'm kind of sad to see his piece not entered. (heh)

 

oh!!..... and Dave, if u ask me, IMO..Al and all these stupid threads are the one doing NO GOOD TO UR SALES