How much do you guys charge to install the sams and tune them?

Are the cam gears necessary?

with the 272/272 set-up does the valvetrain need to be upgraded? titanium retainers? Valvespring upgrades etc?

 

Against his baseline it was still a 90whp gain any way you slice it... My point was more general than that though... 10-15 years ago the thought of a "4-banger" running a 12 flat period, much less on street tires, would get you laughed out of town. People are too quick to disbelieve because "no one else gets that kind of power"... Now people are running around town in 230-240whp (and much more) 12 sec NA Hondas, running 13:1 compression on the street with 93 octane. Now that to me is much more of a feat than what some are claiming with the Evo. Think about it guys, your running under 10:1 AFR from around 5k up, the top end is also being retarded to hell, I can't think of a better scenario for a AF controller to shine...

 

Well, I do happen to know alot about tuning...I am a damn tuner on the side for Christ's sake.

I guarantee that these guys are running some kind of ECU enhancement.

Did you not see them write about adding more advance between 3-4K rpm's?

Not to butt heads, for the abbrasiveness, sorry.

 

Why is there even an argument about that? They're using an Apexi S-AFC. They listed it in the mods on the very first post. Every tuner running 12's with a stage 1 kit right now are using some sort of AFC. So why the skepticism?

 

Well - their BEFORE cajm dyno sheet looks EXACTLY identical to my pre- emanage SAFC-2 tuned dyno sheet - almost ideantical - so I feel they could easily make those numbers on the safc II - - - - its a very powerful tuning tool if you know what you are doing - - my sti made over 350 wheel hp with a safc

 

Alfriedesq, how is the AFC2? Is it worth getting over the S-AFC? Does the knock sensor work good or just a waste of electronics?

 

waste - - - I would get the eamange - - - it does much more for the same $

 

My point was that AMS and Buchur Racing were only using an AFC. BADWRX seems to be trying to say that those gains are not possible without a more "advanced" tuning tool... The added timing between 3-4k comment was about "...a customer's car..." and not the "12.00 sec AMS car". I fail to see why this is improbable...

 

...to quote him...

 

When I see a graph like this it tells me that there is no engine advanced engine management of any sort. If there was I imagine that the graph would be alot more linear and smooth than it is now. The graph is very choppy and most of the power made seems to be inconsistent which would lead one to believe that not much more than bolt ons and basic engine management(like fuel controller) is being used here. Never the less it just shows how much potential this car has. Think what this graph would look like with a stand alone

 

His is right...so long as you are talking about a WRX. Their ECUs try to be too smart and just get everything wrong once you start throwing more air at them.

Mitsubishi ECUs do much better with just an AFC. Hell, up until last year, Buschur ran a VPC on a stock ECU in his 7 second drag car. No timing advance control at all.

 

We have not played with cams gears yet on the EVO, although you can see decent gains when timing them out on a DSM 4G63. All we are using for ECU modifications is the S-AFC II. There are no secret parts on the car, just some common sense tuning and a few little Mitsubishi tuning tricks (most of the hard-core DSM'ers already know them).

 

what kind of gains do you expect with adjustable cam gears? did you guys have to make considerable changes to the s-afc after the cams? will AMS sell the cams with the proper settings for s-afc?

 

I'm curious with your dyno plots if you were running pump gas for both. If not, did you run the car with the stock cams on race gas. My understanding was the boost levels indicated in the graph were used for the 12.00 run, which was on race gas. Just trying to get a better understanding of the graphs and comparisons between the two, no disrespect towards your accomplishment is intended.

 

I've seen that on our chicago 93octane pump gas you can really only push about 19psi of boost, after that the ECU gets hints of knock and starts pulling timing. Throw a few gallons of high octane gas and you're ready for higher boost. If I had e-manage on the car I could tune around knock on 93 octane by reducing timing in certain areas (top end). For most of my high HP runs or track runs I usually have about half a tank of gas and then I add a few gallons of 100 or 118 (whichever I have on hand). Remember, if there is no knock then there will be no benefit to running higher octane fuel, it will not give you more HP just because it's race gas. We basically made the 353whp run on the dyno, converted it back to AWD and took it ot the track in that tune. But to answer your question, yes, both dyno curves where done with a few gallons of high octane gas in the tank.