Knock sensor readings on a 2.3
Jul 8, 2007, 10:05 AM
#1
Knock sensor readings on a 2.3
Hello,
I've heard a couple different rumors that when you go to a 2.3 that sometimes it will throw the knock sensor off completely and if using an EMS such as AEM the knock sensor reading will be everywhere even if there is no knock. In all parts of the log early roms to redline.
I know some engines are louder than others but im only speaking about going from 2.0 stock to 2.3 built short block.
Thanks.
I've heard a couple different rumors that when you go to a 2.3 that sometimes it will throw the knock sensor off completely and if using an EMS such as AEM the knock sensor reading will be everywhere even if there is no knock. In all parts of the log early roms to redline.
I know some engines are louder than others but im only speaking about going from 2.0 stock to 2.3 built short block.
Thanks.
Jul 8, 2007, 10:37 AM
#2
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Mine isn't that case. If you had solid mounts without balance shafts i would assume this might be the case but a knock sensor reads a 6400hz ring. and just a 2.3 isn't going to make that sound constantly.
2.3's won't run the timing 2.0's will though. I was hitting like 20counts of knock and my sea of 8's is now sea of 2's and 3's.
2.3's won't run the timing 2.0's will though. I was hitting like 20counts of knock and my sea of 8's is now sea of 2's and 3's.
Jul 8, 2007, 11:07 AM
#3
Mine isn't that case. If you had solid mounts without balance shafts i would assume this might be the case but a knock sensor reads a 6400hz ring. and just a 2.3 isn't going to make that sound constantly.
2.3's won't run the timing 2.0's will though. I was hitting like 20counts of knock and my sea of 8's is now sea of 2's and 3's.
2.3's won't run the timing 2.0's will though. I was hitting like 20counts of knock and my sea of 8's is now sea of 2's and 3's.
Ive only tuned on 93 and im not really interested in running an agressive tune on pump but we kept pulling timing and so on but no matter what the logs looked the same. And i mean a difference of a couple degrees of timing which im sure should have made a big difference. Also dumped 100 octane in the tank and it looked the same.
I also have raised compression and a number of other parts. I went from stock engine with reflash to built block, built head and the necessary contributing mods.
Im hoping its just a noisy engine but ive heard rumers that other people have ran into the same issue.
Jul 8, 2007, 11:28 AM
#4
Many poeple make the mistake of overtightening the knock sensor when they move it over to another motor. Torque on it is very light, something like 7-9 ftlbs. Making it too tight can make it over sensitive. Same for leaving it hand tight. These cars are still too new for the sensors to be leaking, but I'd check it anyway. On DSMs, I've had knock that didn't look real (always the same, like yours) that could only be cured by installing new lifters. FWIW, I ran several strokers on DSMlink that didn't show any additional knock activity over a 2 liter, and there are several local DSMers running 2.3s with AEM that haven't reported any knock problems either. So I would consider it to be very unlikely that it is related directly to the 2.3, but rather some other mechanical issue, perhaps one of the ones mentioned above.
Jul 8, 2007, 11:33 AM
#5
Many poeple make the mistake of overtightening the knock sensor when they move it over to another motor. Torque on it is very light, something like 7-9 ftlbs. Making it too tight can make it over sensitive. Same for leaving it hand tight. These cars are still too new for the sensors to be leaking, but I'd check it anyway. On DSMs, I've had knock that didn't look real (always the same, like yours) that could only be cured by installing new lifters. FWIW, I ran several strokers on DSMlink that didn't show any additional knock activity over a 2 liter, and there are several local DSMers running 2.3s with AEM that haven't reported any knock problems either. So I would consider it to be very unlikely that it is related directly to the 2.3, but rather some other mechanical issue, perhaps one of the ones mentioned above.
Like i said i went from nothing to everything. So im just trying to find the most logical fix to the problem. But while researching on it ive heard of some other cars having the same issue as me.
Im gonna try the parts i listed above and if it works ill let everyone know.
Jul 8, 2007, 03:56 PM
#6
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Well i know from personal experince at peak tq my stroker wont take half the timing my 2.0 would.
Like i was running the blocked 8's there.. now its 1's and 2's .. My car is 0 knock now at peak tq and pulls just as good.. About the same ammount of timing up top though as before. Just around peak tq the car wanted to knock real bad on 2.0 timing values
Like i was running the blocked 8's there.. now its 1's and 2's .. My car is 0 knock now at peak tq and pulls just as good.. About the same ammount of timing up top though as before. Just around peak tq the car wanted to knock real bad on 2.0 timing values
Jul 8, 2007, 04:07 PM
#7
Yea even when the logs were reading high knock counts with no timing the car still felt good. We tried to street tune instead of dyno (dyno jet) due to load to see if we could get the count to go down. But nothing. Same issue with 100 octane (hoping the tune should still be right on with out any tweaks to see if i just had a bad tank of gas) but same thing.
The car always felt good but the whole knock thing is annoying.
The car always felt good but the whole knock thing is annoying.
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Jul 8, 2007, 09:50 PM
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I have a similar problem with my 2.4L that I am trying to diagnose. One thing I am considering is switching to AEM. Buschur makes insane power with strokers and pump or race gas. He does it with an AEM and I think the AEM knock threshold is different or adjustable. No body has deciphered the knock tables very well on Ecuflash. Dave just tuned a car that ran 28 psi on pump (93 octane). That is unheard of and I don't think you would ever get that on a stock ecu. Just my .02
Jul 8, 2007, 10:20 PM
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Yes, there are about 10 - 12 separate knock tables that you can adjust in ecuflash. The problem is that nobody really knows what they do, or how to adjust them. Some of the ecuflash gurus have talked about it but nobody has made any headway. The general concensus is that Mitsubishi did a good job with the knock filters and don't mess with them. It would be nice to make them a little less sensitive, (like AEM) or delay the knock flag to compensate for forged pistons, removed BS, etc.
Jul 9, 2007, 10:24 AM
#14
If your tuning your car without using det cans of some variation, then I'd say find a new tuner. All it takes is some proper headphones and you can use your EAR to listen for knock.
Jul 9, 2007, 10:47 AM
#15
We are prob gonna use head phones when the car is back up and running, also gonna check if a different knock sensor fixes the knock on the log issue.
Then if anyone else experiences we'll know of a quick fix.