305 whp! Totally stock evo with Dyno Flash and Ntercooler !
Problem with the ntercooler intercooler spayer is this. The car ends up ingesting the Nitrous Oxide from the spray bar into the engine and this is where the big HP gains are coming from. This is a proven fact. Dan at Mach V called us with his huge gains and was so happy with the same mod, he picked up 48 hp and 56 ft bls of torque with it. Now come on, it doesn't take a genius that you aren't going to gain that from spraying cold stuff on the front of your intercooler.
To further prove the fact we loaned our dyno to another company that make these intercooler sprayers. This company was using Co2 instead of nitrous to cool the intercooler. Everytime the Co2 was engaged the car would miss and backfire. This test was run on a turbo Honda and a turbo Supra. We couldn't figure out why the cars would only backfire when the intercoolers were sprayed with the Co2 and wouldn't do it when run without it. Finally we made some dividers from cardboard to try and keep the co2 from getting ingested in the engine through the airfilters. As soon as this was done the misfires could be eliminated almost completely. It was impossible to completely seal the air intakes the way we were trying to do it. The gains from the just the spray bars on the intercoolers were then ZERO.
The spray bars, quite frankly, don't work. The only gains you will find is if you happen to get some of the nitrous in the engine.
Don't believe me? Next one of you guys that dyno switch the car over from the nitrous for cooling to straight Co2 and see what happens.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
To further prove the fact we loaned our dyno to another company that make these intercooler sprayers. This company was using Co2 instead of nitrous to cool the intercooler. Everytime the Co2 was engaged the car would miss and backfire. This test was run on a turbo Honda and a turbo Supra. We couldn't figure out why the cars would only backfire when the intercoolers were sprayed with the Co2 and wouldn't do it when run without it. Finally we made some dividers from cardboard to try and keep the co2 from getting ingested in the engine through the airfilters. As soon as this was done the misfires could be eliminated almost completely. It was impossible to completely seal the air intakes the way we were trying to do it. The gains from the just the spray bars on the intercoolers were then ZERO.
The spray bars, quite frankly, don't work. The only gains you will find is if you happen to get some of the nitrous in the engine.
Don't believe me? Next one of you guys that dyno switch the car over from the nitrous for cooling to straight Co2 and see what happens.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally posted by davidbuschur
Problem with the ntercooler intercooler spayer is this. The car ends up ingesting the Nitrous Oxide from the spray bar into the engine and this is where the big HP gains are coming from. This is a proven fact. Dan at Mach V called us with his huge gains and was so happy with the same mod, he picked up 48 hp and 56 ft bls of torque with it. Now come on, it doesn't take a genius that you aren't going to gain that from spraying cold stuff on the front of your intercooler.
To further prove the fact we loaned our dyno to another company that make these intercooler sprayers. This company was using Co2 instead of nitrous to cool the intercooler. Everytime the Co2 was engaged the car would miss and backfire. This test was run on a turbo Honda and a turbo Supra. We couldn't figure out why the cars would only backfire when the intercoolers were sprayed with the Co2 and wouldn't do it when run without it. Finally we made some dividers from cardboard to try and keep the co2 from getting ingested in the engine through the airfilters. As soon as this was done the misfires could be eliminated almost completely. It was impossible to completely seal the air intakes the way we were trying to do it. The gains from the just the spray bars on the intercoolers were then ZERO.
The spray bars, quite frankly, don't work. The only gains you will find is if you happen to get some of the nitrous in the engine.
Don't believe me? Next one of you guys that dyno switch the car over from the nitrous for cooling to straight Co2 and see what happens.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Problem with the ntercooler intercooler spayer is this. The car ends up ingesting the Nitrous Oxide from the spray bar into the engine and this is where the big HP gains are coming from. This is a proven fact. Dan at Mach V called us with his huge gains and was so happy with the same mod, he picked up 48 hp and 56 ft bls of torque with it. Now come on, it doesn't take a genius that you aren't going to gain that from spraying cold stuff on the front of your intercooler.
To further prove the fact we loaned our dyno to another company that make these intercooler sprayers. This company was using Co2 instead of nitrous to cool the intercooler. Everytime the Co2 was engaged the car would miss and backfire. This test was run on a turbo Honda and a turbo Supra. We couldn't figure out why the cars would only backfire when the intercoolers were sprayed with the Co2 and wouldn't do it when run without it. Finally we made some dividers from cardboard to try and keep the co2 from getting ingested in the engine through the airfilters. As soon as this was done the misfires could be eliminated almost completely. It was impossible to completely seal the air intakes the way we were trying to do it. The gains from the just the spray bars on the intercoolers were then ZERO.
The spray bars, quite frankly, don't work. The only gains you will find is if you happen to get some of the nitrous in the engine.
Don't believe me? Next one of you guys that dyno switch the car over from the nitrous for cooling to straight Co2 and see what happens.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
You can be sure that we will be conducting a CO2 vs.
NOS netercooler test in the very near future
IN FACT - I am going to do it in a very public manner and place at our Dyno Day Evo meet this comming Sat the 1st of November
Pruven and I are sponsored by Nitrous Express so we are super keen to get to the bottom of this.
On Saturday we wil do back to back dyno runs - one with C02 and the Other with NOS - on the same car and the same time - in front of everyone who is there
If dave is right - which he may be (it makes sense) then its something we want to know !!!!!!!!!!!!
See you all Sat the 1st at Pruven 12: 00 noon for the big test - FREE Pizza and Soda and the Pruven Black Evo and my World's fastest evo on display
I will be very interested in the results too Al. It happened to us like that on two different cars, Honda and the Supra. I am also sponsored by NX Express on the Conquest and tube chassis Talon. EXCELLENT quality nitrous kits. That has nothing to do with the fact that the cars end up ingesting nitrous. Hell, you see how much of it comes out of those spray bars, it has to make its way into the engine.
Good luck.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Good luck.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Spraying stuff to cool the IC can be effective (to a small degree) but not on something like the EVO's decent FMIC and certainly not on bigger FMIC's. Try proving it doesn't help on a WRX's stock TMIC's and I bet you'll find things work out differently. This is why we recommend that waterspray systems are removed on EVO's for additional air ingestion by the filter (through the bumper) once you get a bigger FMIC.
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
Originally posted by QuantumEVO
Spraying stuff to cool the IC can be effective (to a small degree) but not on something like the EVO's decent FMIC and certainly not on bigger FMIC's. Try proving it doesn't help on a WRX's stock TMIC's and I bet you'll find things work out differently. This is why we recommend that waterspray systems are removed on EVO's for additional air ingestion by the filter (through the bumper) once you get a bigger FMIC.
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
Spraying stuff to cool the IC can be effective (to a small degree) but not on something like the EVO's decent FMIC and certainly not on bigger FMIC's. Try proving it doesn't help on a WRX's stock TMIC's and I bet you'll find things work out differently. This is why we recommend that waterspray systems are removed on EVO's for additional air ingestion by the filter (through the bumper) once you get a bigger FMIC.
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
LOL, well I'd love to but I have to get a 6G72 buildup out of the way this weekend to get my EVO buildup done next weekend.
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
i ahve to agree with Daves theory. what are most fire extinguishers using?
from Hanford Fire Department.
I used to work for NFA( Nitrous Flow Analasis) we did a lot of custom 3-4 stage kits on BBC( 800+CI motors) I had MANY a stoned days on the flow bench testing different nozzles and spray bar combinations. (Luckily we used medapure)
next time you have a almost dead bottle have the car on at idle and spray a little near the airfilter. (LITTLE) and see what happens. then try the same thing with CO2.
Carbon Dioxide (CO2) extinguishers are most effective on Class B and C (liquids and electrical) fires. Since the gas disperses quickly, these extinguishers are only effective from 3 to 8 feet. The carbon dioxide is stored as a compressed liquid in the extinguisher; as it expands, it cools the surrounding air. The cooling will often cause ice to form around the “horn” where the gas is expelled from the extinguisher. Since the fire could re-ignite, continue to apply the agent even after the fire appears to be out.
I used to work for NFA( Nitrous Flow Analasis) we did a lot of custom 3-4 stage kits on BBC( 800+CI motors) I had MANY a stoned days on the flow bench testing different nozzles and spray bar combinations. (Luckily we used medapure)
next time you have a almost dead bottle have the car on at idle and spray a little near the airfilter. (LITTLE) and see what happens. then try the same thing with CO2.
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From: Puerto Rico
Al
when you tune the EVO the car run richer or leaner everytime you hit the ncooler?
Do you measure differential temp. between inlet air to the intercooler and outlet air from the intercooler every time you hit the ncooler.
Thanks in advance.
when you tune the EVO the car run richer or leaner everytime you hit the ncooler?
Do you measure differential temp. between inlet air to the intercooler and outlet air from the intercooler every time you hit the ncooler.
Thanks in advance.
The wonder of testing is that you can confirm or reject theories!
We will have the answer yeah or neah on the 1st !
Everyone is invited to come on down and watch the action !!!!!!!!
I have been through 6 different combinations of cams so far to settlke on the best - IMHO
I'm much more confident to rely upon my own personal dyno numbers and track times than hearsay and opinions
In this case the word is comming from Dave Buschur so I am thinking he is prob right - BUt isnt the best thing to do test it out and see!
BTW - I settled on JUN 264 int and exh cams - they seem to be the best compromise for my use
We will have the answer yeah or neah on the 1st !
Everyone is invited to come on down and watch the action !!!!!!!!
I have been through 6 different combinations of cams so far to settlke on the best - IMHO
I'm much more confident to rely upon my own personal dyno numbers and track times than hearsay and opinions
In this case the word is comming from Dave Buschur so I am thinking he is prob right - BUt isnt the best thing to do test it out and see!
BTW - I settled on JUN 264 int and exh cams - they seem to be the best compromise for my use
The verdict was I was correct. Al said they had misfires on the C02 and the HP dropped over 20 hp by using it.
Like I had said, the spray bars are a pretty much worthless thing to have. We have found no real world improvements from them. The only time you have an increase is when the engine ingest the nitrous.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Like I had said, the spray bars are a pretty much worthless thing to have. We have found no real world improvements from them. The only time you have an increase is when the engine ingest the nitrous.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally posted by davidbuschur
The verdict was I was correct. Al said they had misfires on the C02 and the HP dropped over 20 hp by using it.
Like I had said, the spray bars are a pretty much worthless thing to have. We have found no real world improvements from them. The only time you have an increase is when the engine ingest the nitrous.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The verdict was I was correct. Al said they had misfires on the C02 and the HP dropped over 20 hp by using it.
Like I had said, the spray bars are a pretty much worthless thing to have. We have found no real world improvements from them. The only time you have an increase is when the engine ingest the nitrous.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
You been doing this for a while !