IIRC Garrett dismissed billet in the context that if you had the same wheel aero in both cast and billet that they would perform nearly identical.

 

and look at what they are doing now

 

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._Machined.html

they were talking about "Identical" sized compressor wheels


Saying FP or Precision turbo started Billet wheels is like saying Metallica wrote "Turn the Page", and not Bob Seger.........so it comes down to what version you like really.

 

Still making turbos....and good ones that last.

 

just curious, what turbos did they offer with billet wheels before?

i wasnt implying fp was the first, i was just saying that i personally have never seen other turbos with billet wheels before fp. once fp turbos hit the market and dominated dynos, is when i started to see all sorts of billet wheel turbos.

cant wait for testing on these though, specially the atp stock location turbos.

 

Google the Garrett TR30r..it dominated WRC and Le Mans.

The billet Compressor turbos were mostly built for race teams...not available to the public for some time. They were only made on demand at times.

Casting the Comp wheels saved Garrett time when Mass producing their turbos. So they stuck with that process for awhile.

Fp does to stock turbos what [insert favorite engine builder] does with the 4G63. They take a stock turbo and push it past what it was built to do.

 

What Im excited to see is the Development of lighter Turbines...and still being at a reasonable cost.

Think Light Billet Compressor, Dual Ceramic Ball Bearings and Titanium Alloy Turbine.

 

Which is what Borg Warner is doing with their new EFR series

 

Not just identical size, but identical design. Are all 17"x9" wheels the same? Heck no! Different offsets, different designs, differen materials, different weights, different bolt patterns, different colors, etc. Same difference with compressor wheels; are all 76mm compressor wheels the same? Not even close.

 

FYI, all the OEMs (Garrett, Borg Warner, MHI, IHI, etc) have made billet wheels for decades. Often for testing purposes to test out new aero. Other situations include low volume, or rapid time to market, or where increased fatigue life is required (making from forged billet vs. cast). I think BW is the only other company making aftermarket turbos with wheels from forged billet.

Let say you only need 50 wheels. I'd guess tooling is in the ball park of $100k. Lets pretend piece price for the castings is $10 each. So that's $100,500 for 50 wheels. Or... you can machine out 50 wheels for a few hundred bucks each. Lets say $250 per wheel. So that's $12500 for your 50 wheels. Which one are you going to do?

 

Exactly. It seems most people didnt actually read the article. Ive tried to explain the concept so many times and people are finally getting the concept.

With a new compressor design.

Garrett has been building them for quite some time with their TV and GT55 turbos. Theyre used primarily in diesel truck and bus applications.

Well said. Casting parts can be much cheaper in the long run for high volume, but CNC machining is cheaper for low volume.

 

Multi-axis CNC milling of parts from billet stock, yeah, FP must have invented that

Not that FP hasn't delivered some very nice turbos for us, they have. But putting tried and true technology to use in fabricating automotive parts is hardly groundbreaking.

 

Disclaimer: I use Garrett Products on my car, have a twin scroll 35R and a nice big Garrett core on it right now.

That quote was taken off the Garrett website, so for all your trying to downplay billet compressor wheels it made enough of a difference for all major manufacturers to now offer them to the public so it must do SOMETHING.

If the improvements come from improved aerodynamics then you have to look at what changed that allowed them to improve the aerodynamics of the wheel.

Looking at the individual components the only thing that changed between the GT and GTX series is the compressor wheels?

I can say with 99 percent certainty that strength was not at the top of the list for why they decided to go ahead and produce a billet wheel turbo, because there was no problem in the past with the regularly GT series failing. That's not to say the billet wheels aren't stronger than the old cast ones but as I understood it, the move to billet was made because you could make the blades themselves thinner as a result of starting out with a stronger material, and you can also make the hub of the compressor wheel smaller allowing the turbo to eat more air.

If you have any insight into the issue please answer these questions for us mere mortals

Sam

 

Well then I don't know why they were so lackadaisical bringing it to market for us poor folk...

Scorke

 

seeing the dyno results from a gtx3076r im not really impressed with that one. it seems like the tiny turbine wheel is choking it to death and spool is sluggish.