Rear Diff upgrade in europe
I fail !!
.. after some research I guess I have the AYC after all..
Well anyhow I would love for the car to oversteer more in arctic conditions.. I had an 96' gsr before and even that was easier to snowdrift with, and the front-heavy celica st205 I owned some years ago locked up the rear diff better then my evo.
I can explain what happends a little better, lets say I snowdrift out from a sharp turn. I go half to full throttle and the car drifts nicely. Suddenly it goes into "fwd mode" and the rear lock slips, countersteering screws up and the car wiggles like a car with ESP before it straightens up again.
I guess its not supposed to act like this.. and let me just point out.. I can't take this car to any "experts" around here (there is none). I acctually had to overhaul the gearbox and TC alone and change the front diff alone, since the mitsubishi car dealer didnt even know what a front lsd was :P Ah and they retailed the price for fixing the front diff to 15805 usd..
Oh and I should point out that the car has benched 370 whp so its not weird that the ayc is getting screwed
Any solutions?
.. after some research I guess I have the AYC after all..
Well anyhow I would love for the car to oversteer more in arctic conditions.. I had an 96' gsr before and even that was easier to snowdrift with, and the front-heavy celica st205 I owned some years ago locked up the rear diff better then my evo.I can explain what happends a little better, lets say I snowdrift out from a sharp turn. I go half to full throttle and the car drifts nicely. Suddenly it goes into "fwd mode" and the rear lock slips, countersteering screws up and the car wiggles like a car with ESP before it straightens up again.
I guess its not supposed to act like this.. and let me just point out.. I can't take this car to any "experts" around here (there is none). I acctually had to overhaul the gearbox and TC alone and change the front diff alone, since the mitsubishi car dealer didnt even know what a front lsd was :P Ah and they retailed the price for fixing the front diff to 15805 usd..
Oh and I should point out that the car has benched 370 whp so its not weird that the ayc is getting screwed
Any solutions?
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: trondheim
.. Im used to drifting since I acctually use an s2000 (weird choice I know!!) to participate in competitions, and I've driven plenty of 4wd's, so I dont think there's something I do wrong, ofc you never know, but...
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 184
Likes: 15
From: Wiesbaden, germany
I can assume what is happening.
Try to make a few snow turns, full steering angle , second gear, start at 3000 RPM and then around 70& throttle
ACD Switch TARMAC : Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to turn around the Front center.
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and did use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction, the car will rotate around front center.
ACD Switch Gravel : Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to turn around the center of the car
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and DO NOT USE use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction.
But on Gravel ( loose roads ) its used to accelerate as fast as possible. they did the job right to only lock front an rear wheels.
ACD Switch Snow: Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to understeer.
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and DO NOT USE use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction.
But on SNOW its used to Stabilize the car, so the front - rear lock switches of fast ( after the car moves/accel. ) and the rear will get only 25% of the Power/RPM. So the Front wheels will pull the car into the steering direction, and the rear will help a bit with acceleration. This will anyway puch to much for the front tires to direct the car, so the understeer is even worse.
Best setting on snow ( to have fun ) is the Gravel setting.
I am having an Evo 7 EDM GSR, so i know what you feel.
Try to make a few snow turns, full steering angle , second gear, start at 3000 RPM and then around 70& throttle
ACD Switch TARMAC : Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to turn around the Front center.
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and did use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction, the car will rotate around front center.
ACD Switch Gravel : Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to turn around the center of the car
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and DO NOT USE use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction.
But on Gravel ( loose roads ) its used to accelerate as fast as possible. they did the job right to only lock front an rear wheels.
ACD Switch Snow: Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to understeer.
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and DO NOT USE use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction.
But on SNOW its used to Stabilize the car, so the front - rear lock switches of fast ( after the car moves/accel. ) and the rear will get only 25% of the Power/RPM. So the Front wheels will pull the car into the steering direction, and the rear will help a bit with acceleration. This will anyway puch to much for the front tires to direct the car, so the understeer is even worse.
Best setting on snow ( to have fun ) is the Gravel setting.
I am having an Evo 7 EDM GSR, so i know what you feel.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: trondheim
I can assume what is happening.
Try to make a few snow turns, full steering angle , second gear, start at 3000 RPM and then around 70& throttle
ACD Switch TARMAC : Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to turn around the Front center.
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and did use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction, the car will rotate around front center.
ACD Switch Gravel : Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to turn around the center of the car
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and DO NOT USE use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction.
But on Gravel ( loose roads ) its used to accelerate as fast as possible. they did the job right to only lock front an rear wheels.
ACD Switch Snow: Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to understeer.
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and DO NOT USE use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction.
But on SNOW its used to Stabilize the car, so the front - rear lock switches of fast ( after the car moves/accel. ) and the rear will get only 25% of the Power/RPM. So the Front wheels will pull the car into the steering direction, and the rear will help a bit with acceleration. This will anyway puch to much for the front tires to direct the car, so the understeer is even worse.
Best setting on snow ( to have fun ) is the Gravel setting.
I am having an Evo 7 EDM GSR, so i know what you feel.
Try to make a few snow turns, full steering angle , second gear, start at 3000 RPM and then around 70& throttle
ACD Switch TARMAC : Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to turn around the Front center.
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and did use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction, the car will rotate around front center.
ACD Switch Gravel : Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to turn around the center of the car
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and DO NOT USE use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction.
But on Gravel ( loose roads ) its used to accelerate as fast as possible. they did the job right to only lock front an rear wheels.
ACD Switch Snow: Car should oversteer in the beginning, the starts to understeer.
Reason: ACD is transferring 50% to the rear, and DO NOT USE use the AYC to transfer power to the outside wheel. Since on snow the wheels will have no traction.
But on SNOW its used to Stabilize the car, so the front - rear lock switches of fast ( after the car moves/accel. ) and the rear will get only 25% of the Power/RPM. So the Front wheels will pull the car into the steering direction, and the rear will help a bit with acceleration. This will anyway puch to much for the front tires to direct the car, so the understeer is even worse.
Best setting on snow ( to have fun ) is the Gravel setting.
I am having an Evo 7 EDM GSR, so i know what you feel.
but what do you think about changing to a rear group N lsd and just block off the two tubings to the ayc?
Alot of noise perhaps..?
Last edited by sindrejl; Feb 12, 2011 at 05:29 AM.
Clown, get out of the sugar bin, you're not meant to be in there...
I have a JDM Evo 8, It has AYC, guess what? I'm taking it off....
Why? Because an AYC can become unpredictable on the track when pushed to the limits, think of it as a form of training wheels (a simplistic analogy), it is designed to auto correct you, but, has a habit of doing the opposite of being required when pushed extremely hard on a circuit.
It also has a habit of breaking when the motor is worked to above 250-280kw atw. Way around this is to switch to an LSD- John Shepherd built mine and I await delivery, $1450 with an OS Geiken LSD, bargain as far as I'm concerned.
All of this is irrelevant as old mate has an LSD already, I'd reccommend talking to John despite the shipping costs or talk to Simon Norris at Norris designs in England bud.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: trondheim
Thank you !
I will have a chat with Simon and see what he comes up with. I dont like this electronic "help", especially when it becomes unstable.. and my car is benched to 280kw
I will have a chat with Simon and see what he comes up with. I dont like this electronic "help", especially when it becomes unstable.. and my car is benched to 280kw
Clown, get out of the sugar bin, you're not meant to be in there...
I have a JDM Evo 8, It has AYC, guess what? I'm taking it off....
Why? Because an AYC can become unpredictable on the track when pushed to the limits, think of it as a form of training wheels (a simplistic analogy), it is designed to auto correct you, but, has a habit of doing the opposite of being required when pushed extremely hard on a circuit.
It also has a habit of breaking when the motor is worked to above 250-280kw atw. Way around this is to switch to an LSD- John Shepherd built mine and I await delivery, $1450 with an OS Geiken LSD, bargain as far as I'm concerned.
All of this is irrelevant as old mate has an LSD already, I'd reccommend talking to John despite the shipping costs or talk to Simon Norris at Norris designs in England bud.
I have a JDM Evo 8, It has AYC, guess what? I'm taking it off....
Why? Because an AYC can become unpredictable on the track when pushed to the limits, think of it as a form of training wheels (a simplistic analogy), it is designed to auto correct you, but, has a habit of doing the opposite of being required when pushed extremely hard on a circuit.
It also has a habit of breaking when the motor is worked to above 250-280kw atw. Way around this is to switch to an LSD- John Shepherd built mine and I await delivery, $1450 with an OS Geiken LSD, bargain as far as I'm concerned.
All of this is irrelevant as old mate has an LSD already, I'd reccommend talking to John despite the shipping costs or talk to Simon Norris at Norris designs in England bud.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: trondheim
A small update, its all icy outside my shop now and I tried a small spin while a employee watched. He said that only the front wheels where spinning.. could it be the center diff or a malfunctional ACD ? anyone have a clue?
This might be due to weight transfer though
This might be due to weight transfer though
Last edited by sindrejl; Feb 16, 2011 at 08:43 AM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 184
Likes: 15
From: Wiesbaden, germany
that should not happen.
Hard to tell whats wrong, but a short list to check:
1.Bleed the ACD section, look for bent hydraulic line ( underfloor, beside the Fuel and brake lines )
2. check if the pump is running. Let the car sit overnight. Switch Ignition on, DO NOT START THE CAR!. wait app. 5 to 7 seconds. Then floor the throttle an hold it down.
The pump should activate now for app. 15-20 seconds.
3. If pump doesnt start, check the fuses at the positive battery pole.
report back
Hard to tell whats wrong, but a short list to check:
1.Bleed the ACD section, look for bent hydraulic line ( underfloor, beside the Fuel and brake lines )
2. check if the pump is running. Let the car sit overnight. Switch Ignition on, DO NOT START THE CAR!. wait app. 5 to 7 seconds. Then floor the throttle an hold it down.
The pump should activate now for app. 15-20 seconds.
3. If pump doesnt start, check the fuses at the positive battery pole.
report back
why not just purchase one from tre or shep and pay the core? im not sure on how much shipping is but its worth a try...and next time you could pick up the parts and try and rebuild the core that you would have left over. just a thought
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: trondheim
that should not happen.
Hard to tell whats wrong, but a short list to check:
1.Bleed the ACD section, look for bent hydraulic line ( underfloor, beside the Fuel and brake lines )
2. check if the pump is running. Let the car sit overnight. Switch Ignition on, DO NOT START THE CAR!. wait app. 5 to 7 seconds. Then floor the throttle an hold it down.
The pump should activate now for app. 15-20 seconds.
3. If pump doesnt start, check the fuses at the positive battery pole.
report back
Hard to tell whats wrong, but a short list to check:
1.Bleed the ACD section, look for bent hydraulic line ( underfloor, beside the Fuel and brake lines )
2. check if the pump is running. Let the car sit overnight. Switch Ignition on, DO NOT START THE CAR!. wait app. 5 to 7 seconds. Then floor the throttle an hold it down.
The pump should activate now for app. 15-20 seconds.
3. If pump doesnt start, check the fuses at the positive battery pole.
report back
Ok the pump is working, haven't bleed the system yet though. There may be some air in the system, Im not sure how the level in the reservoir is supposed to look, because when the ACD pump seems to be engaged the level is far below minimum, else it is at max level. Perhaps its supposed to be like this or perhaps there is some air trapped in the system
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 184
Likes: 15
From: Wiesbaden, germany
The level in the reservoir should be app. 5 to 8mm below min when the pump shuts off. ( 5-8 mm above max when sitting overnight )
First do a bleed. If it doesnt help, its possible that the ACD Clutches are worn out or one of the hollow axles is stripped ( the teeth )
First do a bleed. If it doesnt help, its possible that the ACD Clutches are worn out or one of the hollow axles is stripped ( the teeth )
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: trondheim
Hi! Been a while now, and acd warning light have been permanently lit. I have tried to bleed the system in various ways (Push the gas pedal to get the pump working, getting the car on a ramp, drive it in 3rd gear while someone bleeds) but I cant get fluid out from the ayc unit. Only from the front bleed plug.
Ive also flashed out an error and its 26, error on wheel speed sensor.
Ive just sold the car so has to fix this fast before he comes to collect the car
Ive also flashed out an error and its 26, error on wheel speed sensor.
Ive just sold the car so has to fix this fast before he comes to collect the car
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