u can leave intake manifold on but still have to unbolt intake brace from block. i would just take brace off and throw it away. just take strutbar off. not hard to do a head gasket. its def. no single cam honda thats for sure

 

Yeah that bracket is going to be a *****. My initial thoughts were to leave the manifold in the car and separate it from the head. Think I might just pull it off with the head instead. Going to do a compression test today, even though I already did the leak down. I'm going to compare the hissing from cylinder 1,2 and 3 from the oil cap to cylinder 4 see if there is a difference.

 

well as a possibility there might be two other things leaking in that area, one comes to mind possible exhaust mani studs, if they leak that could cause an oil residue on outside of head by the exhaust side. The other possibility could be leaking valve seals...valve seals leak ull start burnin some oil without affecting drivability.

 

how can exhaust manifold studs leak oil?

 

Well I compared the sound from the oil cap on cyl 1 and cyl 4. No difference. It seems like the rings are ok. Now what I did was pulled the coupler from the throttle body and open and closed it and there was a definite sound difference. I didn't compare this to any other cylinders but I'm 95% sure there is a problem with an intake valve. Maybe not a problem, but carbon build up. I'm goin to run a cleaner through it to see if it helps. Knowing my luck probably not. Being a pessimist, when good things happen it feels good. When bad things happen, that's just what I expect.

 

Agh!

So I ran one of those seafoam type engine cleaners through. Though the leakage seems to have gotten about 2-3% better, it's still more. Used a borescope, could find any serious carbon issues. Thinking maybe a valve is bent, but no damage to the piston.

I'm at a loss. Something's wrong with one or both of the intake valves on cylinder 4, but not sure what. Could be carbon but I just cleaned it. Maybe it didn't clean it good enough.

 

are you going to take the head off?
it's only $80 worth of Headgasket

 

I could just pull it and see. BUT I'd rather find out the problem for sure first so down time is shorter, instead of waiting for the parts to arrive while the car is down. Unless I absolutely have to pull the head to find out, I want to avoid it.

There is certainly something wrong with one or both of the intake valves in cylinder 4. Could be carbon, but I used a cleaning solution and it didn't fix the leak. Maybe it's bent? I didn't see any damage on to piston or the valve with the borescope, unless the damage is covered by carbon, I don't know.

I'd hate to pull the head to just look and see what it is. I may try one more carbon cleaning solution as well as tapping on the top of the valves and trying to break some carbon loose. Maybe Seafoam.

But basically, I'm going to price out, Headgasket, ARP studs, IM gasket, EM gasket, valves and springs. The car has Comp 280's (so I'm told by previous owner) and stock valve springs, as Comp Cams say's valve springs are not required. Well..... maybe they should be? Maybe a spring is bad and it's not sealing the valve seat? Could just be carbon, or bent... I'm glad I narrowed it down this far. I"m far past worrying that it's a headgasket, because if this stuff needs replaced, it'll need new gasket anyway!

I beat on the car a bit this evening and it's running perfect. I'd never know there was a problem had I not down the leak down test.

Any alternatives to pulling the head to check weather it's carbon or bent?

And thanks again for baring with me. I'm a little psycho when my own car needs fixed.

 

exhaust manifold studs can leak oil because a couple of them play a blockage for one of the oil galleys, i dont recall which ones exactly but i remembered readin it on here, that if the studs loosen up a couple of threads, then oil can start slowly seeping out the studs.. so thats why i was sayin that if he has a leak around exhaust mani of oil could be valve cover, the head as he thinks, a turbo oil line over there, or the exhaust mani studs...so if you plan to pull the head, id recommend buying new exhaust mani studs, and rtv them in when you do pull it. good luck

 

Take off your IC pipe from the TB and listen to see if its indeed intake valves.
How did you apply the sea foam?

Also do the compression test already and redo the leak down on a hot motor.
You could always set the 4 cylinder to TDC and squirt some dye into the intake chambers, then use your borescope to see if it leaks into the cylinder.

If you end up taking the head off you might as well have it cleaned, decked, and have a good valve job done. Head games does a basic job like that for around $350-400.

 

I did take the IC pipe off, checked the throttle open and closed. Heard a hissing sound. Compared to a good cylinder. Good cylinder did NOT make the same sound. Defiantly intake valves. The leakdown WAS tested on a hot motor. The engine sat for maybe 10 minutes before the leakdown was perform. As I took the plugs out, it was certainly painful leaning on the valve cover

I was going to do a compression test until I found out it's the intake valve(s). What would be the point really? Other than telling me compression is low due to the valve not seal correctly, what would it tell me? And I'm not trying to be sarcastic. Would it really tell me something that I don't already know?

And it wasn't Seafoam, but a Seafoam like product. Some kind of "Auto Solutions" we have at work. I tried just spraying it into the throttle body, but the engine did not like running at ALL with the coupler off, even with the throttle open... no ****, right? So I decided to take off a vacuum like and do it through the vacuum line. It worked.... well, it worked as in it made it through the engine. But it didn't work as in it didn't fix the carbon build up (if that is in fact the problem, could be bent).

I was thinking maybe Seafoam would be a bit more potent. Maybe it's a stubborn piece of carbon that we couldn't see with the borescope. Or, the carbon is on the seat on the head, not the face on the valve.

The dye idea sounds like a good idea. I might try that, but what will it tell me other than that intake valve(s) is leaking? Maybe where it's leaking? Or which valve specifically, or both?

 

well could be a couple things with your intake valve, it might be bent, which would cause some tapping noise or driveability issues, or you might be wearing out the seal on the valve stem which helps keep the valve stem sealed and keeps from leaking. Or its possible you may have burnt the valve. Best bet is to pull the head like you said, and then see where the dust settles.

 

as much as it sucks, its time to remove the head. no way to check for bent valves with head on. gonna have to bite the bullet and take it off. if its driving fine, might as well drive it until parts come in. just asking more questions isnt gonna fix it. then you can seat valves and pour some water in the chamber and see if/how bad its actually leaking. i "highly" doubt its a piece of carbon. maybe those cams have weakened the valve springs. let us know what u find

 

That is a good possibility and it's something I was thinking about. It'll be about $1100 for springs, valves and gaskets. Being that the cams are 280's I wouldn't doubt that they could have slowly damaged the spring. Not to the point of breaking, but weakening.

I'm kind of against the idea of a bent valve, only because if it was bent, I think it'd have obvious problems and much more leakage. 25-30% is something to be concerned about, but really, it's not terrible.

As far as carbon... why not? The car runs rich. Even the smallest amount of carbon build up could cause a valve to stick open if it's on the valve seat.

I can't afford $1100 right now either way. The car has a crappy clutch (lock out mania), the synchros are getting worse little by little, I want a TRE rear diff, and most importantly, I want a new turbo (BBK or FP). Certainly the head would probably have to come first, unfortunately.

I'm going to pull the valve cover off this weekend, tap on the valve a little bit and try and break some carbon free, run some more solution through the engine, go out for a drive and drive hard to try and blow some carbon out and come back and do another leak down test. honestly, I don't think it'll work, but it'll be a good last chance effort

 

A valve can be bent enough to make noise and still seal in a compression test. So it can be bent and still run ok.

Just pull the head and get it fixed up.