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Help: AFR Dip at Peak Boost. Why?

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Old Sep 6, 2011 | 04:57 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Freddie@Spec-Ops
Please do... how were you even tuning this when 1byte wasnt scaled correctly... were you just guessing the load that it was hitting or what?
If 1byte load was at the stock scaling (1.2) then I suppose pretty much all he had to do to figure out his real 1byte load is add 306 to whatever load he was seeing after passing the limit where it "resets" at 0.
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Old Sep 6, 2011 | 05:10 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Freddie@Spec-Ops
Please do... how were you even tuning this when 1byte wasnt scaled correctly... were you just guessing the load that it was hitting or what?
I've rescaled the 1 byte since I first posted this. Like I said, the examples above are just extreme examples of the problem and I've since corrected the overboost issue and the issue with 1 byte. I can post up some newer logs and maps when I get home but I really don't think that's the issue because I have four things that are all happening at once and I'm thinking they have to be related:

1.) I'm hitting peak boost (around 27 psi)
2.) Duty cycle is dropping and the wastegate is opening
3.) My Synapse DV is fluttering
4.) AFRs are dropping rich by almost a full point (12.0 -> 11.0) and then they go back up to 11.8 or so
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Old Sep 6, 2011 | 05:38 PM
  #18  
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that would be 372 load in those logs, and unless the intake is throwing off load big time, I don't see the stock turbo spitting out 370 load... perhaps a boost leak???
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Old Sep 6, 2011 | 07:39 PM
  #19  
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Here's a graph from 3rd gear pulls from this morning and afternoon. Ignore the power outputs because I don't think the stretch of roads were exactly the same. The Red line was a pull that I did before work and the Green line was after work with fuel raised where the dip is. Obviously the dip isn't as drastic but it's still there, which makes me think that it's still something mechanical. The DV is also still fluttering at peak boost on both pulls and I can see the needle on the boost gauge fluttering as well. I'll also mention that the Red Line had the Synapse in Pull mode and the Green Line had the Synapse in Push mode which I think explains why boost in the green line is little lower.



Red Line Log


Red Line Fuel Map


Green Line Log


Green Line Fuel Map


Same WGDC Map for both pulls
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Old Sep 6, 2011 | 08:30 PM
  #20  
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The only time i ever had flutter issues with a bov, was always during partial throttle.

how do you have your bov plumbed / getting it's boost source?

can you post a picture of it? sometimes pics reveal a lot more than a simple description.

Last edited by Aby@MIL.SPEC; Sep 6, 2011 at 10:41 PM.
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Old Sep 6, 2011 | 08:34 PM
  #21  
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Your fuel map could use some work... the green run is way to lean... also if you look you are trying to drop almost an entire AFR point at 3400 RPM in both logs... smooth that transition some more and see if that helps... Can we also see an 3d snapshot of the fuel map?
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Old Sep 6, 2011 | 09:23 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Freddie@Spec-Ops
Your fuel map could use some work... the green run is way to lean... also if you look you are trying to drop almost an entire AFR point at 3400 RPM in both logs... smooth that transition some more and see if that helps... Can we also see an 3d snapshot of the fuel map?
I'm not trying to drop an entire AFR point.. that's the problem I'm trying to fix. There is no transition to smooth because it all happens within 100 rpms and a load variance of only 20-30.
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Old Sep 6, 2011 | 09:29 PM
  #23  
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exactly please let me see the 3D map...
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Old Sep 6, 2011 | 09:46 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Aby@MIL.SPEC
The only time i never had any flutter issue with any bov, was always during partial throttle.

how do you have your bov plumbed / getting it's boost source?

can you post a picture of it? sometimes pics reveal a lot more than a simple description.
Here's the pic. I'm pretty sure it's using the stock routing and plumbing. My boost gauge is teed into the same line near the intake manifold and I've already tried disconnecting it and running the Synapse on it's own line with no Ts but it didn't make a difference.



Originally Posted by Freddie@Spec-Ops
exactly please let me see the 3D map...
I can try to get a pic up in a little bit. Right now my wife is using my computer with that ROM on it.
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Old Sep 7, 2011 | 07:24 AM
  #25  
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Old Sep 7, 2011 | 09:08 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Ian0611
Here's a graph from 3rd gear pulls from this morning and afternoon. Ignore the power outputs because I don't think the stretch of roads were exactly the same. The Red line was a pull that I did before work and the Green line was after work with fuel raised where the dip is. Obviously the dip isn't as drastic but it's still there, which makes me think that it's still something mechanical.
i havent tuned, let alone looked @ the oem ecu, but can you log all trims / corrections + fuel maps referenced when doing a pull? I also dont know the logging rate capabilities, as the ecu maybe bouncing from from 1 map or another or apply some hideous amount of fuel correction for a brief period of time, based on a boost spike that the ecu is seeing. can you filter the load signal to the ecu or how the ecu percieves load?


Originally Posted by Ian0611
The DV is also still fluttering at peak boost on both pulls and I can see the needle on the boost gauge fluttering as well.
the only way for the bov to flutter, is that the boost source keeping the bov closed is fluctuating or the feed line to the bov has a leak.

r u running a egr blocking plate?

whats causing the bov to loose its boost source/supply?

can you post a pic looking @ your plenum, fuel rail fuel pressure regulator feed line?

have you eliminated your egr lines, crap behind the plenum, etc?

Last edited by Aby@MIL.SPEC; Sep 7, 2011 at 11:56 AM.
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Old Sep 7, 2011 | 11:32 AM
  #27  
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Why am I think you're getting compressor surge? The might be the flutter you are describing.
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Old Sep 7, 2011 | 01:09 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Aby@MIL.SPEC
i havent tuned, let alone looked @ the oem ecu, but can you log all trims / corrections + fuel maps referenced when doing a pull? I also dont know the logging rate capabilities, as the ecu maybe bouncing from from 1 map or another or apply some hideous amount of fuel correction for a brief period of time, based on a boost spike that the ecu is seeing. can you filter the load signal to the ecu or how the ecu percieves load?


the only way for the bov to flutter, is that the boost source keeping the bov closed is fluctuating or the feed line to the bov has a leak.

r u running a egr blocking plate?

whats causing the bov to loose its boost source/supply?

can you post a pic looking @ your plenum, fuel rail fuel pressure regulator feed line?

have you eliminated your egr lines, crap behind the plenum, etc?
I checked the fuel maps and trims and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. No drastic changes where I'm getting the dip. I am running an EGR block off plate but the lines are all still connected. However, this problem existed before I blocked off the EGR and before I even did the turbo swap. I looked at some old logs last night and it also looks like the problem has gotten worse over time. June logs show no dip, July logs show a slight dip, and August logs are as bad as what I posted in this thread.
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Old Sep 7, 2011 | 01:10 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by BigT
Why am I think you're getting compressor surge? The might be the flutter you are describing.
That's what Synapse suggested but it doesn't make sense that it only happens when I hit peak boost in 3rd gear and up.
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Old Sep 7, 2011 | 01:33 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Ian0611
That's what Synapse suggested but it doesn't make sense that it only happens when I hit peak boost in 3rd gear and up.
Actually it makes perfect sense, you're only going to see surge under high load conditions in higher gears...
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