Hey guys,
A buddy of mine is getting ready to have his engine and head built and the builder is telling him he needs manley V-springs cause the kigglys will float a valve above 35psi. Anyone ever hear of this? I thought kigglys were the best...

 

Mayby if the Kiggleys are wore out, or installed improperly.

Now just what set of manley springs is the head builder wanting to install?

 

Kigglys are basically brand new, just installed a couple thousand ago...car sat injectors gummed up cause of E85, car went to tuner, and boom! Hole in the block.

The manleys they want to install are the 359lb dual spring set.

 

Sounds like the head builder has set on the shelf that he is trying to sell so he can have some Christmas money.

He wants your buddy to back up from Kiggley springs and go to a old school dual,

If they were dead I could see that, but with a couple thosand miles on them, I dout they have even wore in.

What cams is your buddy running? I Know the FP3 ask for 240 on the seat.

The kiggley is 97lbs @ 1.440


The manleys are 359lbs?? at what height? On the seat? or open?

 

359lbs pressure is seat pressure, open is 104 or more hes not sure. He will be using Extreme Tuner stage 1 cam rated at 1200hp and 9000+ RPM. He is disabling the mivec, he was running kelford 280's. Although the builder is going to check out the cam and see if they want to do a custom grind instead.

 

You have that backwards, 104 seat (valve closed) 395 open.

I have not heard of the extream tuner line of cams.

But 104 on rhw seat is not that much of the increase over the Kiggley 97

Now at 395 that would be at what height?

Now what is intresting is Manley does not offer a Dual Spring for the Mitsu. (Not in the online master Catalog) Maybe it was Super Tech? They I know have a Dual spring set up for the Mitsu.
(For $395 a set)

 

STM sells them I know with locks and retainers for 505. Your prob right about the pressures, I am just going by what my buddy said. If you look up my buddys original thread Exteme Tuners US Evo build you will get an idea of who they are...they still owe him so he is just getting what he can from them.

 

Ok I found them

Dual Spring & Retainer Kit Specs:
O.D./I.D.: 1.160"/.870" .865"/.660"
Seat Pressure: 104 @ 1.580"
Open Pressure: 175 @ 1.210" 237 @ 1.000"
Stock/Max Lift: 0.370" 0.460"
Coil Bind: 1.070"
Rate (lbs./in.): 359


The little info I have on the kiggley springs

Kiggley springs
97lb Seat Pressure at 1.440"

325lb/in Rate


The Manley Dual has a 359 lb/in the Kiggley is not far from there at 325 lb/in
34lb/in

or 17 lb/in in .500 lift

Maybe even less depending on the lift of the cam, some of the biggiest DSM cams come in at 11mm - 11.5mm or less

Toss a .030 shim under the Kiggley and you will be a tad over the 104 on the seat of the manley dual, and right there with them at the cam lift

 

So your thinking they are just trying to sell him parts?

Anyone ever heard of floating a valve using kigglys that are in spec?

 

Read what I said in the first line of post #4

As far of a confirmed valve float with Kiggley springs, I will say no.

I heard and spoke with a person that was kicking off the EVO followers at 10K RPM in a full built DSM.

I do not know if he ever resoved the issue.

But anyway, the head builder should be able to get the seat pressure up to 110-115 lbs on the seat with the kiggley with out much of an issue

 

Cool, thanks for the responses. I wanted to know for him and me. I run kiggly springs as well. I will let him know what you said.

 

No Problem!

If you, or him or even his head builder has a question, Just ask.

 

The builder is an extremely reputable engine/head builder known world wide. I just thought it was odd that they said that about the kigglys since I have never heard such a claim. I have kept there name out of it, out of respect for them. However if you personally want to know you can PM me.

 

The Kiggley springs are great, we use them on a lot of heads. We choose to use something different on higher boost engines, though. We usually set them up at around 110# on the seat, pretty standard stuff. Now take the boost into consideration in relation to the area of the valve.

A=1.488sq/in
1.488 x 25psi = 37.2
110 - 37.2 = 72.8

So you end up with only 72.8lbs of seat pressure responsible for controlling the valve. Perfectly fine for up to around 25psi. Over that we like to use a heavier spring. Most of the problems come when the valve is fully open and has to change direction to close. It's the job of the spring to control the valve here. A spring with not enough pressure combined with full boost trying to push the valve farther open causes valve float. This throws the geometry out of line when the cam follower loses contact with the lobe which makes the HLA hyper extend. Then when the valve finally does close, the HLA wont allow it to do so fully. All of this causes accelerated wear on the guides, valves, seats and springs and power loss.

 

Good info! Thanks Tony!