Sorry man, you got me there .... The plugs were installed months ago and I cannot remember the exact number. I know they were Iridium plugs for the EVO but cannot remember the number. I guess I could pull them out and look at them. maybe take a picture too....
I'll email you a cal file as well as some data logs where the knock was apparent. This is part of my problem. I do not have enough documentation. All I have is "your car doesn't like timing"..... I do have cal files and data logs, I'll send them to you. I'd appreciate any help in this. The way I see it, I'm never going to get a decent tune in this car until the underlying problem is addressed. Everybody and his little brother can hook up a laptop to my car and start changing fuel & timing maps, but when the problems appear, the laptops shut down and I'm back at square one......

 

No, I have not re-advanced the gears... I was going to try that next and reload the 271 whp cal file that is very safe and go from there. What's the best way to re-set those gears? I mean, how do I make the cams rotate? Do I loosen the gears one at the time?

 

Just a few suggestions from myself. First would to be check your compression, I know you said you have done this but was the proper procedure used? To check compression you must note for each cylinder where it goes on the first stroke. IE my car usually runs about 75psi first stroke then slowly builds up to around 160-165psi as you keep cranking it. Also when testing for compression it is necessary to hold the throttle open at one hundered percent.. A good rule of thumb is that everything should be within 10% at the most. If for some reason your numbers when doing this test do not match I would proceed to doing a leak down test, both wet and dry. (pm me for details)
Reason I am suggesting this is because oil when mixed into the combustion chamber it lowers the octane and can cause knock. It would seem to me that your car is using a considerable amount of oil and is also blowing out the dipstick from a excessive amounts of crankcase pressure (you have it ziptied). Your car has many of the same issues with timing, and blowing out the dipstick that Mdzuricky77's car had. His car too would not take any timing on topend, but luckily for him an over rev caused him to break a piston which neted in a full engine rebuild. That I did using all new stock parts, including bearings, pistons, rods and rings. After his motor was rebuilt we broke his car in using non synthetic oil, and then retuned it. Guess what to our suprise his car all of a sudden loved to take timing. Was it because of the oil comsumption issue he was having... I think so.
As for your tune, you car is tuned safe with the knock control enabled, even more so than some but because of the timing issuse and knock problems your car was showing the last thing I want is for you to be calling about a blown engine. Could I have pulled more power from it, maybe.. would it have been safe to drive around probably not. I feel your car has much more in it once we can diagnois this issue and I feel I can get it resolved if you have the time. About your cam gears they are now set -2 -2, and not the -12 -12 they were before. Silverevo8 your problems are not in the tuning as you have had several diffent people all look at the car and everyone has come to the same conclusion that it doesn't like timing. I would personally start looking into more mechanical issue now. Secondly the EXED is a great tool but in this one case it is in my opion not going to help the timing issue..

Later,

 

I don't have any way to judge the correctness of the compression test. I think that could be discussed via PM with the person who did it. I have no reason to believe it was done incorrectly though....


That'a an interesting theory, but the car had the same characteristics when it was stock and was not using any oil..... Also, I don't think it does consume a lot of oil. I'll check and see just how much it does use and let you know. It's unfortunate that it blows oil from the dipstick. It never did that until Boost Solutions did the modifications to the car..... I wish you had the chance to do the original work, however that's not possible now as time cannot be rolled back.....

Yes, the car is tuned very conservatively, unfortunately that was not the goal I had in mind when I took my car to George. Actually, in our conversations he said I would be getting 320whp or more with pump gas with all the mods he suggested and I paid for. It's too bad the car was not properly evaluated or the mods properly executed at that time.
I do think you are correct in that there are other issues than tuning to get my car to make power. Unfortunately, I have not had any luck or help in getting this done. I don't think it's a good idea for me to have more people tune the car or for the same people to keep trying to tune it. that's why I'm wrinting to the forum to get some insights and help to look to another direction.
Your diagnosis might be right, but I'm sure it's going to take some actual hands-on mechanicking to really find out. I'm just trying to get this car to make the power that $7K worth of Boost Solutions mods should do.
I suspect that I'll probably end up either putting the car back to stock and selling all the mods or having somebody actually do what needs to be done to get the car right. By now, I need to weight carefully the pros and cons of each option and the cost of one vs. the other. Also, I need to be reasonably confident that what I'm promised or told is likely to be true.
Who knows, I might get lucky here and somehow come out with at least a portion of my wallet intact

Oh, you are right, the XEDE is a good unit but I don't think that taking off the mods I have now and replacing them with a XEDE will do any more than lightening my wallet by the cost of the XEDE and it's installation.

 

Fair enough, I was not trying to come off like whomever did the compression test didnt do it right, just wanted to inform that by following the proper procedure, one will get different numbers that are correct. I wish you the best of luck. And if there is anything I may be able to help with feel free to PM me which is easy on the wallet.

 

Thanks Doug, I hope I can get the right help......

 

My car was the same i could only run 10 to 15 on pump gas and on race i could run 15-20 but anymore would cause knock. Boost, Bad gas are the major things that will not let you run timing.

 

Well, the bad gas is not really a plausible cause. I thought that was the case at first, but I've run nothing but Amoco Ultimate 93 octane for a long time...... I've not tried tuning with race gas yet, so I'm not sure if that would help.

The car knocks even at 19-20 psi.... so that's not likely to be it either.....

Besides, I was doing the same thing back when it was stock and the boost was regulated by the stock boost controller.... Also, people in Cali run more timing and better power on their 91 octane p!ss water....

 

Is your clutch broken in yet? Put the car back on the dyno. You can end all the speculation immediately. You can revert to the map that put down more power if needed.

 

I've got around 400 miles of easy driving on the clutch. I'll see about going back to the dyno soon. Still, the best power so far has been 271whp without knock...... Your car does a bit better than that with far fewer mods....

 

With cam gear experimentation, I think close to 290whp in your car should be attainable on that dyno with minimal effort.

 

I hear you bro, the problem is that so far all I've seen from "street tuning" has been very conservative tuning efforts or some very strange fuel curves that only produce around 259 whp. One of those curves actually made under 160whp at 7000 rpm.
Whenever the tuners try to get more power with their traditional approach, they run into knock or voltage that indicates knock and they understandably back off. Now, there have been efforts by dyno tuning that have produced higher power numbers, but the whole idea at the start was to get this car to over 300 whp with pump gas. I bought all the modifications indicated by the tuner and they've spent many weeks messing around with it and all they can get is the same power that a XEDE alone can get out of an otherwise stock EVO.
At first I heard all kinds of excuses for this but as I continued to spend money and replaced perfectly good items, nothing improved. Now, the last final reason is "your car just doesn't like timing".... Well, can't blame that on plugs, injectors or other vendors gauges.... If this "timing allergy" can be corrected then perhaps the car can make the power I've paid for (well, maybe not since I've spent way more than many others have for far less power).

 

How do you know that the knock sensor has been set up correctly?

 

After Doug turned on the lights, let me make sure I've got this correct - You took your healthy car to Boost Solutions and dropped 7g's on it. They backed you out the door with a 271 HP dyno sheet and an engine that blows the dipstick out under boost and their only explanation was "Sorry Dude, your car doesn't like timing" ???????

JDB

 

Drop in some race gas and see if the knock goes away. If it does, then it is real knock. If it doesn't, then it is something else.

We still don't know what sort of timing advance you are attempting to run.

We really can't help you unless we get data. Post a datalog. Try some things out, like dumping in some race gas. Anything!