My HTA dyno results (more boost)
 

Well I finally got it done. After leaking from one part or another, the guys at Dyno4mance got me straight. Here it is.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...177WHP_WTQ.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...177PSI_AFR.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...177WHP_Run.jpg

So what does it run? Well I did what I could do. I have to get better at driving. The car is definatly better than the driver.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...th_EVO7395.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e.../7395_slip.jpg

That's a 7.3@95 in the 1/8, just incase the printout isn't clear enough. It was straight test and tune, and the 1st day they where open.

nice numbers, what mods besides hta?

How much boost are you pushing on her? The 1/8 mile traps are not the best test for the true pull of that turbo , being that it never gets into 4th gear which would be the true test to H.P. with the closest 1:1 gear ratio. Plus the 1/8 mile mph. vs the 1/4 mile mph is a good indicator of how much power is being produced. If you pull 30+ mph on the back half your on track

You running standalone?

Funny you asked that. I was wondering too, looked down and saw it was right at 26 psi.

Just ECU flash with MAF-T Pro for the speed density conversion.

Nice!

2.3, head ported, HKS280s, 3" TB exh., tranny, clutch.

517whp on dyno dynamics is no joke man! That's some awesome power! Now practice driving and get her down the track for a some good 1/4 mile times! I'm seriously jealous...

Am I reading the AFR correctly that you are tuned to ~10.2 AFR for the most part?

also, what alky kit are you running?

Try to shift faster.

Thanks man. I think it's not too shabby for 26 to 27 psi:) I can't wait until the race gas tune.

Yup, Andrew\Bruce like to get no more than 2 knock counts.

Snow kit w/labonte failsafe

I admit I was a granny shifter, especailly from 2nd to 3rd.

I'm always confused about Dyno Dynamics dyno results because I never know if they are the ones that are trying to read like Dynojets or not.

In the UK that power would be thought to be around 680 hp at the crank.

Why does Dyno4mance not include the data at the bottom of the sheet for the run like a sheet like this does?

http://www.lancerregister.com/attach...postid=1397336

That's a shootout graph. If it was in that mode, it would have made well over 600HP.

This dyno reads about 15% lower than a Dynojet.

That is just Awesome Power on a DD Dyno! SICK!! What RPM are you shifting at?

Right at 7500.

You couldn't be more wrong. Have you ever read what Shootout mode is or what it is for? All the UK Dyno Dynamics operators use shootout mode. And it has been proven several times by taking an engine from an engine dyno, into a car, and onto a DD that 24% is a good estimate to convert from Shootout power at the wheels, to engine flywheel power.

LT1 sorry to go slightly off-topic in your thread. I bet your 2.3 HTA is the bomb. I just wish I had a better orientation of how to compare DD results like this to others.

By the way LT1... your spoolup looks terrific in the dyno graph. Any chance you could log a 3rd and then a 4th gear pull on the road so we could all see how the spool is on the road ofthe 2.3 + HTA combo?

I have spoolup results for 2.4 + HTA and I would love to see yours to compare. If I recall, I make 30 psi by 4500 in 4th.

OK, I have to wait until I get a replacement pipe comes in. I blew it off halfway home on the highway messing around driving home from ATL.

I might have 2.3+ HTA info for you shortly.

Scorke

Cause in the video it does should like you are short shifting it. I shifted my FP green at 7500.. Is your bottom end stock?

No, the motor is a 2.3ltr. So my RPMs won't be that high.

We have very similar setups. 2.3, ported head, TBE, MAF-T Pro. The only major differences are I have the 3065 and HKS 272s. I would be interested in seeing how our torque curves compare using something like DataLogLab. The absolute numbers don't mean much, but the shape of the curves should tell a lot. It seems that the HTA 35r has the midrange of the 3065 and the top end of the 35R. Maybe I need to upgrade.

-Paul

This thing comes on so fast. I say go for the upgrade man. You will not be sorry. You see where I'm getting 20 psi at, and the curve is fat. I don't think I have the exception to the rule. Buschur would be in that catagory. I'm a reg. weekend warrior guy. The power the turbo made at 27 then 26 psi at the end of the curve is awesome.

nice power... ur about 5mph short on the 1/8th

Nice job. I am trying to get rid of my 3065 for this upgrade. The difference is that i run race gas daily around 30psi and a EMS so i should see some nice gains. I really like this turbo and what it puts out thus far. dont get me wrong, meth is great but im not the biggest fan since i can afford race gas which will put down more power.

2.3 HTA+30-35psi= :)

from what i have read about dd shoot out mode is that the numbers are like a dj dyno which is higher then the dd runs in other modes....
shootout mode was developed by Dyno Dynamics primarily to eliminate "Operator Technique" and as a tool for measuring horsepower accurately and CONSISTENTLY for ALL Dyno Dynamics dynos with Shootout accreditation. All dynos with Shootout accreditation have been calibrated the same accross the board, and should not vary more than 1% when comparing between Dyno Dynamics dynos.

I can name a number of DD's in the UK... WRC Tech, Scoobyclinic, The Racing Line, and many more. All run in Shootout mode, full stop. Never seen one dyno chart posted that was not run in this mode.

A bone stock Evo 8 I think runs about 210 hp atw.

Totally maxed out stock turbo IX's run about 300 hp atw I think.

I believe that makes DD's run in Shootout mode the lowest reading dyno when compared to Mustang and Dynojet.

First, I said this dyno reads 15% lower than a Dynojet in the mode it is displayed in on LT1runner's car. Meaning that if a stock Evo IX makes 255whp at a Dynojet, it will make around 220whp at Dyno4mance. And I'm pretty sure I have over 1000 pulls tuning my car and others on this exact same dyno. :lol: It is located in Calhoun, GA. Its an AWD Dyno Dynamics in standard mode, and the owner does not correct the numbers to read like a Dynojet as some other shop owners in the USA have been tempted to. A stock Evo IX will make around 220whp in standard mode and 285ish in shootout mode. To us, shootout mode is typically about 7-10HP off of crank HP. Shootout is not "Estimated Flywheel horsepower" in the Dyno Dynamics software for a reason. It doesn't say "Estimated flywheel horsepower when you add an additional 24% in the software. :)

LT1runner's car should make around 585whp on a Dynojet and well over 600 in shootout mode. What is shootout mode for? Its an "estimated flywheel" number and is also not able to be manipulated by the dyno operator as standard mode is.

In the end, the flywheel number shouldn't matter, because the dyno is a tuning tool, not a bragging tool. Cheers.

sorry but your wrong:rolleyes:

The spool on this turbo is amazing

If you read the literature about Shootout mode.. it says nothing about flywheel estimates. So what you are saying is contrary to DD's own copy.

Secondly, I can post to you literally hundreds of Shootout 44 graphs which are ATW power as posted on the MLR.

I just wish a DD operator in the states would get off his ass and call the company they bought the 100k dyno from and ask them why every DD operator in the UK used Shoutout 44 mode. And trust me, DD won't be saying it is a flywheel estimate. To say there is a mode in what is likely the best dyno system out there that only spits out a flywheel estimate is ridiculous.

DD more than anyone respects the fact that the only thing it knows is at the wheel power.

It is no coincidence that the shootout graphs list all the variables like intake temp on the bottom of the graph. Put an intake temp probe near an exhaust manifold and see what results you get. Shoutout mode prints this data on the graph so there is no mystery to how the number was arrived at.

nice man

you are confusing me with another guy,i never said anything about flywheel...all im stating is generally shootout mode reads higher then standard mode(depending on how the operator calibrates the dynoin standard mode) and that shootout mode is just a mode used so that you can have comparable numbers between dd dynos at different locations since they all read within 1% of each other when in that mode...k thnx bye{thumbup}

I think you can hang that up man. Shops that don't and won't do it, will not change the way they do things to aline themselves with any other shop in the US,much less shops in the UK. It is what it is.

Reading the literature and actually operating the dyno are two different things. Noize is most likely not lying when he tells you he has 1000 pulls on one. I do all of my own tuning at this particular dyno as well and I concur with what he is saying.
That's great that everyone across the pond uses the shootout mode. This particular shop doesn't unless you ask for it. In all instances SO mode reads much higher than a standard uncorrected graph.
The owner of this shop is a high and mighty on this brand of dyno as anyone you will meet. He happens to be Brittish:p as well. He has a complete understanding of what SO is for and he chooses not to use it. If this dude made 517 on Andrews dyno he is doing something. :beer:

That is part of my point. In the UK, as I have said, it has been proven that 24% is a realistic figure for arriving at flywheel power from the DD's in Shootout 44 mode to the engine dyno. Now if we just use that figure, that gives us:

517 / .76 = 680 hp at the crank

Now if you guys want to believe LT1 is running that much power at less than 30 psi, on pump + meth, at an AFR in the 10's... I'm sorry, it just does not make sense.

So do you think that too much power or not enough for those figures? And if so, why? I'm just trying to understand your train of thought.

Not saying it is, but the .76 maybe the wrong factor to use, I don't know.

Track times will tell the story 95mph in the 1/8 assuming you pick up strong in the back end 30mph would be close to 500whp. Which is where I would think the car is at anyway we'll have to wait to see you run a full 1/4 though.

Dynos are for tuning purposes only not comparing.

I'm not sure I can put any better evidence than the following...

Here is a thread off MLR.. GT35 + 2.2l car... mapped on engine dyno, then shortly after brought to a DD roller. If you only look at the page 1 and page 5 you can see the results. Approximately 24% diff between the two figures and... what do we have here? The DD was run in Shootout Mode.

http://www.lancerregister.com/showth...hreadid=140934

Here is another thread. Notice the DD operator posts estimated flywheel graph, and also ATW graph. Both display in Shootout Mode.

http://www.lancerregister.com/showth...hreadid=151911

I'm thinking 680 at the crank is a lot for less than 28 psi with pump and meth. In the link above you will see a GT35R car running 2.5 bar on VP Import make 556 ATW on a DD.

I know comparing dynos is hard, but the reality is we all do it every day in trying to make decisions on what parts and part combinations to buy.

Yes but do you mean 500 whp DJ, DD, or Mustang :)

I think a better driver would get a better et/MPH than me in my car in the 1/8th.

But that's tunning. I think we have in prior threads noted a huge difference between the UK and the US as far as tunning EVOs. We have two standards. US and UK. You have to figure out which standard you want to go with. I see you racking your brain when it doesn't seem to you that the two places arrive at HP figures differently. You're trying to make them eqaul when they are not. I can understand trying to find some sort of level playing field, but it could be that there isn't one. Drag times can tell, but even that's turned upside down to the drivers that are like the guy that drove Buschur's car(amoung the best) vs. drivers like me(not so good).

Or the HTA35R is the bomb;)

I'm pretty sure the owner of Dyno4mance is from the UK and lived in London most of his life before he came to the states.

I think we agree on certain things, but are not understanding each other online. Just know that this is not corrected to show anything strange, and that shootout mode would be higher. Have a great day.

I hear you. I'm not trying to be argumentative... and I will openly admit I have hardly a clue what I'm talking about :D

I'm just a guy that was reading the MLR before this forum began. And have been reading this forum since 2002. So here I am, used to seeing DD graphs posted just about every day for the last 7 years on the MLR.

Then I start seeing DD graphs posted on EvoM... and for one there is not all that neat data at the bottom of the graph. And I'm like, huh? Then I read about Shootout mode and I'm like, "that sounds cool..", but UK uses it but US don't? Why?

Then I see someone making a lot of power ATW considering it's a DD and on less than 28 psi, and AFR's in the 10's... and I'm like, uhhh.

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I don't want to derail this thread man, but our experience does not match yours. When we run a stock car in shootout mode on our dyno we get within 10 - 20 hp of what the manufacturer rates the car at.

I don't know how the dyno's are calibrated in the uk or how the oem's rate power in the uk but on this dyno we get within 10 to 20 hp of what the oem claims when we use shootout mode.

I'm not disagreeing with your observations, just stating that they do not match ours for U.S. cars.

In the future, if people plan to post on evom, I will try to remeber to do a shootout plot for them.

If you want to discuss further, feel free to pm myself or noise. {thumbup}

For now, back to LT's thread.

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The afr was in the 10's because we were pushing 1000 cc/min of meth.

Took me a while to find this thread. Congrats on the new t00n, Chris! Race gas tune should be nutz :helpme:

Thanks man.

Have you ever asked Dyno Dynamics why when you run Shootout mode you get flywheel horsepower?

Seems like an obvious question to me? :confused:

Are you a Shootout mode accredited shop?

Interesting... so you run a lower lambda when you are pushing a lot of meth than you would with gasoline? Can you explain why?

Honest question from someone trying to learn about tuning for meth injection.

Dynojet.

Map on lambda not afr as meth has a afr of something like 6-1, If you map on lambda then you aim for the same as you would on pure petrol.

Mark

Hi Mark... got that much down.. but if he is running 10.x:1 gasoline AFR spraying meth... then it seems to me they have decided to run a lower lambda when spraying meth than if they were running straight gasoline.

So I was just curious how you decide what lambda to run when spraying meth. Same as gasoline, or different?

^ Have you seen the ongoing thread on this topic in the alky/nitrous forum?

Yep I followed that with interest... but I still am not 100% on reasons why lambda should be where it is. Definitely interested to hear more opinions. That said I think I'm content to think that keep lambda the same as where you would on gasoline is an ok approach.

However here is a case where they are lowering lambda on meth :confused:

nice man keep up the good work