Well yeah, those percentages I listed were what the MSRP's offer as profit over the invoices of the car. Granted invoices can differ slightly from dealer to dealer, there are things like advertising costs and sometimes D/H charges differ, but what I'm saying is, if you paid just MSRP for the two cars mentioned you'd be paying 5-6% above cost. My point is people come in a want less then that, sometimes below invoice, along with the special financing, and when/if I tell them I can't do it some of them (some not all) get as angry with me as if I'd given them the finger, kicked their dog, or said something about their moms. We shoot for a 30% closing ratio too, if you can do that you are a pretty good salesman. Imagine that, hearing 7 out of 10 people telling you "no thanks." or "got to hell" or " you're trying to rip me off" and your doing good. Granted anything over MSRP is gravy and we will try to get it. But don't blame us for trying to make more then peanuts. When I sell a Lancer or base Eclipse or Galant at MSRP I'd be lucky to make over $125. Think about it. You can sell a $20,000 Mitsubishi in this business and make only a hunion. If the market forces you to pay over MSRP for an EVO don't blame us, blame those rich people that have to have it at any cost.