That has nothing to do with it, they are Jap parts and Jap engineering, put together in the US to keep costs down. Hell VW and BMW's are made here as well, they are still german.

DSM's (with teh 4G63) are Jap cars with jap parts, it really doesn't matter where the final parts are put together.

 

actually the bada$$ imports are still made in Germany or Japan(VW R32, Passat W8, Phaeton, BMW M3, M5, Honda S2000, Acura NSX) which explains that if the foreign carmakers trusted our quality they wouldn't have jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all cars made in the US by a foreign car maker are actually DOMESTIC (ie Honda civic 1996 & newer) & you will also notice that the largest aftermarket support will be on cars not made in the US. regardless whether DSM or evo, we still on Mitsu's!

 

I'd rather the Evo NEVER be considered a DSM than to have it shared among people like the great kids on DSMTuners.com

That site is just out of control...

God, I miss the Talon Digest.

 

I've owned a DSM since 1998, and don't consider my EVO a DSM. Although they're similar, they're not the same car. When the term DSM gets mentioned, I think of 1g and 2g DSMs, not EVOs.

 

no... DSM is an acronym for Diamond Star Motors a factory plant in normal illinoi where the 1st & 2nd gen Eagle talon, laser and eclipses were made.

The EVO is made in japan.

A Dodge Avenger is a closer cousin to the 2nd gen eagle talon than an EVO would every be (they share the same unibody)

 

And here we go again.

There is a literal meaning for DSM and there is a club or local meaning for it. Simply stating where the cars are made are not enough because US Galant VR4's are considered DSMs and they were made in Japan just like the Evo. An Evo is not a DSM but having them seperated completely doesn't make any sense to me. If they show up at DSM meets fine, most DSM tuners are now Evo tuners - its a natural progression. But if Evo people prefer to hang out with just Evo people that's cool too, I don't think anyone here wants to label the car as a DSM anymore.

Yeah, but those two cars have a lot of fundamantal differences in setup, like one being MR and the other front engine AWD, I could see why the rift would be greater then the one between the GSX and EVO.

But they have that right to set those rules. It is a club and a very closed one at that. I never realized the "DSM" label was that prestigious that some people would feel put off because they can't be associated with it. I would think owners of new Evos would feel better making their own name. Isn't the word Evolution legendary enough? Look at how regular Lancer owners are treated as second hand citizens on this site, how some people remove "lancer" from their trunk badges because they don't want to be associated with the cheaper car. Check out Supraforums (a site for *ALL* Supras) is ruled by the MKIV owners who consider the rest as ricers/beaters/ etc. "DSM" is a closed society.

I don't think so. I don't think any Evo shares a platform with any DSM. Just powertrain wise. Remeber they moved the powertrain from under the Galant platform to the lighter Lancer platform to gain its agility. Only the old Galant VR4's are similar to 1G's. My Galant is very similar to my Eclipse.

Ha ha. Now that 'Talk seems to have gone under "'Tooners" is starting to get more of that bite to it. So it won't be long before the kids get run off.

 

Let's start way back in the beginning.
Back around late 1990 or early 1991, Todd Day started the Talon Digest, a mailing list on the at that time new medium called the internet. A place to share information about the Talon / Eclipse / Laser models. The cars were then called TEL. A few years later, somewhere around 1993, someone noticed there were all these DSM stickers on their car, and instead of calling them TEL, we decided to start call them DSM (Diamond Star Motors) after the joint venture between Chrysler and Mitsubishi that was building these cars in Normal Illinois. The name was then officially changed to Club DSM, and the DSM name was officially adopted, and the DSM name was born. In 95, Chrysler dropped the Laser brand, but kep the Eagle brand for a few more years until 97. The 2g DSM's had kept the signature 4 cyl turbo AWD drivetrain in a new body, and enough parts and information was similiar to be also adopted in the DSM family. The DSM heritage ended in 2000 when mitsubishi decided to complete change the Eclipse and not keep the 4 cyl turbo AWD platform. Enough parts and idealogy was different between the first 2 generations and the 3g platform that there was little in common between the two. Also around that time the Talon Digest started to wane in popularity and upkeep.

The EVO is not a DSM, and probably never will be. Although they have similiar parts (4g63 engine, AWD platform) the EVO has it's own past and heritage in Japan that as old or older than the DSM. After all, it's not called the Evolution VIII just cause they started at number 8. The smart people learned their mistakes on the DSM platform and learned everything that they shouldn't do, and applied that to the EVO platform. You should hear all the stupid stuff buschur used to do when he first got into DSM's. EVO's are very popular and have alot of aftermarket parts available to them from the US and Japan. DSM's had very little available to them in the beginning, and they were almost all US based because DSM's never really made it outside the US.

I have both a 1g DSM and a EVO. I love both of my cars, but I would never call my DSM a EVO and my EVO a DSM. They are very different but similar cars.

 

They share NOTHING but a Drivetrain? You mean By far the most important part? They are VERY similar and have more difference in teh body then anything.

I liken it to a vette forum, C4 C5 and C6 they all belong, as in Evo's progressed and because of the popularity broughth the evo that has the same motor and modability.

 

I think many people go with 4G63 = DSM, but there is more to it than that...

 

Exactly. But I guess it is just a matter of perspective. I know I could drop a 2G or Evo III engine into my Galant, and I could probably replace/modify the rear subframe to accept AWD, but that wouldn't make it as good as any Evo. I think the powertrain is very important, but I also think the chassis with all its bracing/balance, lightness and suspension hardpoints are just as important in making the Evo so great. GSX's don't handle anywhere near as well as an Evo does out of the box, even with several modifications.

You liken it to a series of Vettes, but it isn't the same. The progression of c4, c5 and c6 is like the progression of Evos IV, V, VI and so on. We just don't have that here in this country - but we can't just stick DSM's in as a substitute - they have their own, short truncated history - that is unless one day Mitsubishi decides to put the 4G63 under the hood of a Eclipse or Galant one day. Camaro SS and Trans-Am WS6 have the same powertrain as Vette's, do they have a home on the Vette site? Probably not, but the relation between the Camaro and the Vette is similar to the way the DSM is to the Evo.

 

i think there are as many similarities as differences between dsm's and evo's. Something you cannot ignore though is the modification path for the 4g63, which the dsm's pioneered. That being said, I wouldnt consider the Evo a DSM, but i would consider it its cousin or sister car. After all, besides the fact that it has 4 doors its still a mitsu, still 4g63, still AWD and still turbo charged.

 

very well said

 

Our situation is very special and needs special attention. The Camaro, Vette and so on have always been here, domestic and have their own nitches. The DSM was an alternative to an EVO so we worked with what he had. The wealth of knowledge that you currently tune by is from DSM's period. The go fast mods and upgrades are IDENTICAL, the one and the same, so the progression from DSM to Evo may not be as linear, just remember that ANYONE who is driving a Modded EVO and makes BIG WHP for little money, needs to understand the 15 YEARS of DSM modding that made it possible.


Refusing a DSM section is like refusing 15 years of knowledge and mistakes made.

 

No one is saying refusing a DSM section - whatever that means. But there is a reason for Vette forums - its for Vette owners and enthusiasts plain and simple. But if you go to LS1.com, it doesn't matter if you own a Vette, F-body, or GTO, pretty much the same mods will work on all the cars because they share the same engine. So now, Evo and DSM owners could unite under 4G63.com - because of that 15 years experience, but not try to adapt the DSM moniker to include another car.

 

This way of thinking willl limit our Knowledge and tuning ability.