Took injen intake off and now boosting more
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Huh, you don't get 20whp from installing an intake. Maybe some other factors change, but you didn't just gain the 20whp when going from the stock airbox to this, unless you had a flash tuned FOR the Injen system but were running poorly because of the stock system.
I added the Injen kit as my stage 2 with custom tuning=320awhp
In my sig: stage 2 vs. added cams (HKS 264/272)
Keep in mind, I'm still running a cat converter.
Originally Posted by nirvevo
GREDDY wrote: "I used my Injen kit as stage two and went from 298awhp(before Injen) and 320awhp after injen."
There is a big BUT with that
A lot depends on where it was tested up here in Denver. If the Dyno you were at used SAE corrections which are for normally-aspirated cars (which around here run anywhere from 1.22 up to 1.28)... that is not the equivalent sea level HP or Torque for a turbo'd or super charged car because of technical issues that I won't go in to (not that I know them all or could explain them completely)
Suffice it to say if you WERE using corrections (let's say WHP of 300, an SAE factor of 1.25) you would have to work backwards to an uncorrected number of 240 WHP which also would NOT be the correct number. your true WHP would be some where between 240 and 300. You would have to know your exact turbo efficeincy, relative barometric and other atmospheric factors to calculate WHP numbers (or BHP or Torque) that were Sea Level equivalents.
Practically speaking, it can't be done at any level that is readily available to the average (or probably even pro users) and even if some think-tank-tuning-operation managed to measure it for one car, it would only apply to that car, because of all of the variables involved when you went to another car to test it.
So comparing numbers with anyone at sea level (even if both are uncorrected numbers) is fruitless if accurate comparision is the goal.
THIS IS NOT TO SAY HOWEVER that comparing start and finish numbers like GREDDY was doing are not worthwhile. if you show a sizable gain from one run to the next, with the same relative conditions, you of course have gained something, and it is accurate to say "Today in Denver I gained xx(x?) hp from changing my blah-blah to a blah-blah-blah"
I've said too much, sorry :-)
There is a big BUT with that
A lot depends on where it was tested up here in Denver. If the Dyno you were at used SAE corrections which are for normally-aspirated cars (which around here run anywhere from 1.22 up to 1.28)... that is not the equivalent sea level HP or Torque for a turbo'd or super charged car because of technical issues that I won't go in to (not that I know them all or could explain them completely)
Suffice it to say if you WERE using corrections (let's say WHP of 300, an SAE factor of 1.25) you would have to work backwards to an uncorrected number of 240 WHP which also would NOT be the correct number. your true WHP would be some where between 240 and 300. You would have to know your exact turbo efficeincy, relative barometric and other atmospheric factors to calculate WHP numbers (or BHP or Torque) that were Sea Level equivalents.
Practically speaking, it can't be done at any level that is readily available to the average (or probably even pro users) and even if some think-tank-tuning-operation managed to measure it for one car, it would only apply to that car, because of all of the variables involved when you went to another car to test it.
So comparing numbers with anyone at sea level (even if both are uncorrected numbers) is fruitless if accurate comparision is the goal.
THIS IS NOT TO SAY HOWEVER that comparing start and finish numbers like GREDDY was doing are not worthwhile. if you show a sizable gain from one run to the next, with the same relative conditions, you of course have gained something, and it is accurate to say "Today in Denver I gained xx(x?) hp from changing my blah-blah to a blah-blah-blah"
I've said too much, sorry :-)
Originally Posted by Derekj03
same thing happend to me with the injen. I dont have a reflash back yet, but i went from holding 20psi to redline to it tapering down to about 16 now. Do people have this problem with other intakes?
Greddy
Which Dyno did you use? The new one in Boulder runs a little lower than Mac does from what I have heard. I know that at least some guys "up here" look at uncorrected numbers. The SAE factors are supposed to be accurate for normally aspirated engines but not forced induction. I know that a lot of locals sling around the corrected numbers, but they are not accurate according to some pretty reliable resources. The numbers ARE good on a given day (or on a day with almost the same condtions) for that car's own gain or loss values, but all of the variables involved with knowing if your turbo is exactly maxed out, etc.. just make it too much of a moving target for any level of real certainty.
My mods match Vishnu's stage 1+ (except for the fact that I switched from an xede to a utec so I don't have a Shiv tuned xede, I tried but it just wouldn't happen) So I believe that I theoretically could hit similar numbers for my upgrades too, if I were at sea level, and had a similar tune, but it would have to be tested in reality to be certain.
Those are just the facts of atmospheres and temperature and other crap that affect our forced induction engines,... which I don't like to think that much about.
Here is a fact: Uncorrected numbers are affected by atmospheric differences AND Corrected number values are actually affected by variables that we don't, and probably can't meaure. Denver 300 Corrected HP is not equvalent to 300 Corrected sea level. I do think if those were uncorrected numbers, the Denver car would be repsenting the better modded and tuned car.
Our cars (all cars, not just Evos) are said to run like crap up here in comparison to sea level cars, so we are indeed handicapped.
Your turbo has to run at apprx 22 psi sea level "mechanical levels or effort" to produce actual 20 psi in Denver because of the relative pressure levels before pressure levels are equal ( seal level is 14.7 psi to start, where Denver is 12 something, we are starting at apprx -2 psi and have to get to 0 in absolute pressure values and the turbo's mechanical effort needed to start equivalent compression levels, and I get lost from there :-)
The only real measurement of results are 0-60 in x.x seconds , 1/4 mile in (x)x.x seconds at xxx mph and other similar standards. And even those won't be as good up here.
But inspite of all that, I'm dyno-ing with the Utec at Mac on Friday and hoping for something positive with closed loop fuel and boost controls.
Which Dyno did you use? The new one in Boulder runs a little lower than Mac does from what I have heard. I know that at least some guys "up here" look at uncorrected numbers. The SAE factors are supposed to be accurate for normally aspirated engines but not forced induction. I know that a lot of locals sling around the corrected numbers, but they are not accurate according to some pretty reliable resources. The numbers ARE good on a given day (or on a day with almost the same condtions) for that car's own gain or loss values, but all of the variables involved with knowing if your turbo is exactly maxed out, etc.. just make it too much of a moving target for any level of real certainty.
My mods match Vishnu's stage 1+ (except for the fact that I switched from an xede to a utec so I don't have a Shiv tuned xede, I tried but it just wouldn't happen) So I believe that I theoretically could hit similar numbers for my upgrades too, if I were at sea level, and had a similar tune, but it would have to be tested in reality to be certain.
Those are just the facts of atmospheres and temperature and other crap that affect our forced induction engines,... which I don't like to think that much about.
Here is a fact: Uncorrected numbers are affected by atmospheric differences AND Corrected number values are actually affected by variables that we don't, and probably can't meaure. Denver 300 Corrected HP is not equvalent to 300 Corrected sea level. I do think if those were uncorrected numbers, the Denver car would be repsenting the better modded and tuned car.
Our cars (all cars, not just Evos) are said to run like crap up here in comparison to sea level cars, so we are indeed handicapped.
Your turbo has to run at apprx 22 psi sea level "mechanical levels or effort" to produce actual 20 psi in Denver because of the relative pressure levels before pressure levels are equal ( seal level is 14.7 psi to start, where Denver is 12 something, we are starting at apprx -2 psi and have to get to 0 in absolute pressure values and the turbo's mechanical effort needed to start equivalent compression levels, and I get lost from there :-)
The only real measurement of results are 0-60 in x.x seconds , 1/4 mile in (x)x.x seconds at xxx mph and other similar standards. And even those won't be as good up here.
But inspite of all that, I'm dyno-ing with the Utec at Mac on Friday and hoping for something positive with closed loop fuel and boost controls.
I don't think SAE corrected numbers are accurate but I personally think it's pretty close. Many guys that have dyno'd around 300+awhp or more at MAC have hit mid to high 12's pretty consistantly up here. That tells me, the SAE numbers are pretty close. I am no expert at this SAE corrected stuff but the 1/4 mile is pretty close with some at sea level.
For example: turbo13 just ran 12.8 with 325awhp and JustDSM ran 12.6-12.8 with Buschurs stage 1. These guys were dyno'd between 300-320awhp at MAC. JustDSM is extreme now but his 1/4 mile numbers(BR stage 1) were pretty nice. If it was on uncorrected numbers, JustDSM made somewhere around 255awhp. Do you really think 255awhp can really run 12.6-12.8 in the 1/4 mile? It's too hard to say what is right and wrong so I guess I'll be quite now.
Originally Posted by GREDDY
I was running Buschurs stage 1 with Buschurs settings on SAFCII=298awhp
I added the Injen kit as my stage 2 with custom tuning=320awhp
I added the Injen kit as my stage 2 with custom tuning=320awhp
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
That still doesn't tell me anything. The intake did not give you 20whp, but your tuning may have. 2 variables (at least) changed, but you are attributing all of the gain to your intake, which hasn't shown any such gains elsewhere and often times has shown losses without tuning. You would have had to have done the same custom tuning with Buschurs stage 1 if you planned on comparing with the Injen+custom tuning...or if you would have just installed the Injen system with the stock buschur S-AFC settings. Neither would have gleaned a 22whp increase.
yea, after i installed the injen kit, i am now getting really low idle. its real lean at idle...no matter how much fuel i throw at it at idle, it NEVER changes, oh well. But I have noticed a bit more pull in the higher RPMs after the add 
Although with my stock rubber intake piping, I was fine.
Although with my stock rubber intake piping, I was fine.
