Funny how after we've driven the car, the whole AYC/ACD discussion died.
Mar 26, 2003, 04:20 PM
#31
Originally posted by djdaizzy
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I think OVER ALL right out of the box, the US EVO can't compete with the US STi. But as far as modding goes, that's a whole new story. I wouldn't say 4g63 can handle more mods, I would say it has more products available for it so far, I would agree with that.
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I think OVER ALL right out of the box, the US EVO can't compete with the US STi. But as far as modding goes, that's a whole new story. I wouldn't say 4g63 can handle more mods, I would say it has more products available for it so far, I would agree with that.
Mar 26, 2003, 04:30 PM
#32
I don't know about that
Originally posted by djdaizzy
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I guess it depends on what you're looking for in a car. I think OVER ALL right out of the box, the US EVO can't compete with the US STi. But as far as modding goes, that's a whole new story. I wouldn't say 4g63 can handle more mods, I would say it has more products available for it so far, I would agree with that.
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I guess it depends on what you're looking for in a car. I think OVER ALL right out of the box, the US EVO can't compete with the US STi. But as far as modding goes, that's a whole new story. I wouldn't say 4g63 can handle more mods, I would say it has more products available for it so far, I would agree with that.
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I think OVER ALL right out of the box, the US EVO can't compete with the US STi.
I think OVER ALL right out of the box, the US EVO can't compete with the US STi.
Trust me, I've driven a modified WRX, granted, it's no STi, but the EVO is really, really good. Compares very favorably with a number of extremely high performance cars that I've driven...... SOA had to make the STi a 2.5L just to keep up with the EVO 
I'm telling you, I've had some very highly modified cars and the EVO is as fast or faster than any of them, including my TXS Stage II WRX (that's another sorry story, the TXS Unichip that is). Anyway, without the STi side by side, to say that the EVO can't compete with it is not a realistic or wise thing to say.....Peace,
Manuel
Mar 26, 2003, 04:35 PM
#33
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Re: I don't know about that
Originally posted by silverEVO8
No offence man, but I don't understand where you get your facts
How can you say that? You really must drive an EVO soon Trust me, I've driven a modified WRX, granted, it's no STi, but the EVO is really, really good. Compares very favorably with a number of extremely high performance cars that I've driven...... SOA had to make the STi a 2.5L just to keep up with the EVO I'm telling you, I've had some very highly modified cars and the EVO is as fast or faster than any of them, including my TXS Stage II WRX (that's another sorry story, the TXS Unichip that is). Anyway, without the STi side by side, to say that the EVO can't compete with it is not a realistic or wise thing to say.....
Peace,
Manuel
No offence man, but I don't understand where you get your facts
How can you say that? You really must drive an EVO soon
Trust me, I've driven a modified WRX, granted, it's no STi, but the EVO is really, really good. Compares very favorably with a number of extremely high performance cars that I've driven...... SOA had to make the STi a 2.5L just to keep up with the EVO I'm telling you, I've had some very highly modified cars and the EVO is as fast or faster than any of them, including my TXS Stage II WRX (that's another sorry story, the TXS Unichip that is). Anyway, without the STi side by side, to say that the EVO can't compete with it is not a realistic or wise thing to say.....Peace,
Manuel
I really can't tell you anything to back up my claims, it's gonna look really bad on my part I know, until next week or so. But I can tell u I have tested VIII, VII and VI already. I never said the EVO is not very very good. I love the EVO by all means. I'm just saying right out of the box, stock to stock, the STi will be better over all. Now granted it'll take $2 to make the EVO faster, but that's not my point.
Last edited by djdaizzy; Mar 26, 2003 at 04:39 PM.
Mar 26, 2003, 05:24 PM
#34
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Re: I don't know about that
Originally posted by silverEVO8
No offence man, but I don't understand where you get your facts
How can you say that? You really must drive an EVO soon Trust me, I've driven a modified WRX, granted, it's no STi, but the EVO is really, really good. Compares very favorably with a number of extremely high performance cars that I've driven...... SOA had to make the STi a 2.5L just to keep up with the EVO I'm telling you, I've had some very highly modified cars and the EVO is as fast or faster than any of them, including my TXS Stage II WRX (that's another sorry story, the TXS Unichip that is). Anyway, without the STi side by side, to say that the EVO can't compete with it is not a realistic or wise thing to say.....
Peace,
Manuel
No offence man, but I don't understand where you get your facts
How can you say that? You really must drive an EVO soon
Trust me, I've driven a modified WRX, granted, it's no STi, but the EVO is really, really good. Compares very favorably with a number of extremely high performance cars that I've driven...... SOA had to make the STi a 2.5L just to keep up with the EVO I'm telling you, I've had some very highly modified cars and the EVO is as fast or faster than any of them, including my TXS Stage II WRX (that's another sorry story, the TXS Unichip that is). Anyway, without the STi side by side, to say that the EVO can't compete with it is not a realistic or wise thing to say.....Peace,
Manuel
Mar 26, 2003, 05:30 PM
#35
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Mr AWD,
the center of gravity is indeed lower on an Impreza.
But I cannot see how you can infer from that that the Subaru will be better handling there are a lot of other variables to be taken into account. Like body shell rigidity for example...
the center of gravity is indeed lower on an Impreza.
But I cannot see how you can infer from that that the Subaru will be better handling
there are a lot of other variables to be taken into account. Like body shell rigidity for example...
Mar 26, 2003, 05:31 PM
#36
Re: Re: I don't know about that
Originally posted by BoxerSTi
What is your logic? So are you saying Honda also had to make the 3.2 TL type-S just to keep up with the 3.0 ACCORD???
What is your logic? So are you saying Honda also had to make the 3.2 TL type-S just to keep up with the 3.0 ACCORD???
Peace,
Manuel
Oh yeah, I see in your profile that you drive a 2004 Sti..... I did not know anybody had them yet...... You really got one?
Last edited by silverEVO8; Mar 26, 2003 at 05:33 PM.
Mar 26, 2003, 05:44 PM
#37
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Re: Re: Re: I don't know about that
I really don't think Subaru built the 2.5 litre to try to catch up with the EVO, if that was the case, the JDM '04 STi would have a 2.5 litre too. They made a lot of improvement with the 2.0L JDM STi, maybe this video would help you guys out a little bit.
www.club-chaos.net/STi.zip
www.club-chaos.net/STi.zip
Mar 26, 2003, 06:01 PM
#38
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Re: Re: Re: I don't know about that
Originally posted by silverEVO8
Well, the EVO VIII is true to the WRC car image. Now the comparison with the STi becomes a little more complicated. the STi is really a different car from the EVO since the engine displacement has changed.... If they stayed true to the spirit of the WRC cars, and wanted to compete with the EVO, they could have tried to build a 2L STi and go head to head with the EVO..... Hell, if you start changing engine displacement, you might as well get a Mustang Cobra
Peace,
Manuel
Oh yeah, I see in your profile that you drive a 2004 Sti..... I did not know anybody had them yet...... You really got one?
Well, the EVO VIII is true to the WRC car image. Now the comparison with the STi becomes a little more complicated. the STi is really a different car from the EVO since the engine displacement has changed.... If they stayed true to the spirit of the WRC cars, and wanted to compete with the EVO, they could have tried to build a 2L STi and go head to head with the EVO..... Hell, if you start changing engine displacement, you might as well get a Mustang Cobra
Peace,
Manuel
Oh yeah, I see in your profile that you drive a 2004 Sti..... I did not know anybody had them yet...... You really got one?
I drive a 2002 WRX, and I will have my STi here in 2 months. Why does it matter? Alot of people here put down 03 EVO and I m sure some of them haven't take delivery yet, so whats your point?
If you don't like displacement, go for a GEO metro
Last edited by BoxerSTi; Mar 26, 2003 at 07:12 PM.
Mar 26, 2003, 06:53 PM
#39
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I don't know about that
Originally posted by BoxerSTi
Forget about WRC rule, this is AMREICA. Subaru wants to use 2.5 for couple of reason, one of them is to make this 300HP beast a LEV. And for us, the 2.5L will hell alot easier to make HP then a 2.0L. Moreover, I don't see the EVO have DCCD, AVCS, semi closed block design, drive by wire,etc..
I drive a 2002 WRX, and I will have my STi here in 2 months. Why does it matter? Alot of people here put down 03 EVO and I m sure some of them haven't take delivery yet, so whats your point?
If you don't like displacement, go for a GEO metro
Forget about WRC rule, this is AMREICA. Subaru wants to use 2.5 for couple of reason, one of them is to make this 300HP beast a LEV. And for us, the 2.5L will hell alot easier to make HP then a 2.0L. Moreover, I don't see the EVO have DCCD, AVCS, semi closed block design, drive by wire,etc..
I drive a 2002 WRX, and I will have my STi here in 2 months. Why does it matter? Alot of people here put down 03 EVO and I m sure some of them haven't take delivery yet, so whats your point?
If you don't like displacement, go for a GEO metro
We have had many "bench racing" arguments and they are of little value. Unless your signature is indeed acurate I believe you need to wait for your STI to see what the final configuration and performance numbers are. I hope they are right on the money. The limiting factor on AWD cars has always been the drive train so displacement arguments are ludicrous and your lack of knowledge of the 4g63 is showing. Lets talk in two months.
I am sure you are going to get a great car and unless you are a serious auto-x or solo racer, neither of us have the skill to separate the cars relative to handling and performance. Have fun!
Speedlimit...........
Mar 26, 2003, 07:05 PM
#40
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Did I in ANY words saying that the EVO engine is bad? I like the EVO too, thats why I never talk **** about the EVO. You should tell those people that is talking **** about the STi.
Last edited by BoxerSTi; Mar 26, 2003 at 07:14 PM.
Mar 26, 2003, 07:14 PM
#41
Admin Emeritus
Originally posted by BoxerSTi
Thats what I m trying to tell you guys, I like the EVO, I m not going to talk **** about it, so please don't talk **** about the STi because you like EVO.
Thats what I m trying to tell you guys, I like the EVO, I m not going to talk **** about it, so please don't talk **** about the STi because you like EVO.
No problem.
The majority of the "EVO is gonna ownz the STI and visa versus is coming from folks who cannot buy either. There is no need for you to defend the STI flag here as those who own EVO's and are buying them have an appreciation of both cars and look forward to hearing the STI owners feedback; all it does is clog up the thread which had nothing to do with the STI.
Speedlimit..........
Mar 26, 2003, 08:24 PM
#44
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I'm glad that people are starting to get the point about handling, and why I've always been a bit amused how people would label the WRX as a "great" handling car. Or that it was high-powered in any way.
The USDM Evo is basically entry-level performance in the Japanese leagues. Great chassis, great suspension setup, good tyres, good brakes. However, only the center and rear diff with an open diff in the front. Doesn't mean that it's bad, but as far as professional-level driving goes, a front diff would bring it up to the basic specs that the JDM STi and Evo's enjoy.
I've not driven a USDM STi - just the JDM versions. If they are indeed the same, or similar enough, then it's likely the USDM Evo is going to face stiff competition from it. The JDM Evo already does from the JDM STi - and this is from the PUMA Evo driver.
However, both cars drive differently. One thing I've noticed in racing is that every top level race driver has preferences - we all do. Simply put, I'll be faster in certain cars vs. other cars, and it has nothing to do with the inherent ability of the car itself. Even if the Evo or the STi is "inherently" faster than the other, it's quite possible that even the most professional of drivers is going to be faster in the "slower" car if it matches his driving style. And when the time difference around the track is measured in 10's of a second between two cars, then whichever one suits you more is going to be faster, period.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
The USDM Evo is basically entry-level performance in the Japanese leagues. Great chassis, great suspension setup, good tyres, good brakes. However, only the center and rear diff with an open diff in the front. Doesn't mean that it's bad, but as far as professional-level driving goes, a front diff would bring it up to the basic specs that the JDM STi and Evo's enjoy.
I've not driven a USDM STi - just the JDM versions. If they are indeed the same, or similar enough, then it's likely the USDM Evo is going to face stiff competition from it. The JDM Evo already does from the JDM STi - and this is from the PUMA Evo driver.
However, both cars drive differently. One thing I've noticed in racing is that every top level race driver has preferences - we all do. Simply put, I'll be faster in certain cars vs. other cars, and it has nothing to do with the inherent ability of the car itself. Even if the Evo or the STi is "inherently" faster than the other, it's quite possible that even the most professional of drivers is going to be faster in the "slower" car if it matches his driving style. And when the time difference around the track is measured in 10's of a second between two cars, then whichever one suits you more is going to be faster, period.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
Mar 26, 2003, 08:46 PM
#45
Originally posted by shirokuma
I'm glad that people are starting to get the point about handling, and why I've always been a bit amused how people would label the WRX as a "great" handling car. Or that it was high-powered in any way.
The USDM Evo is basically entry-level performance in the Japanese leagues. Great chassis, great suspension setup, good tyres, good brakes. However, only the center and rear diff with an open diff in the front. Doesn't mean that it's bad, but as far as professional-level driving goes, a front diff would bring it up to the basic specs that the JDM STi and Evo's enjoy.
I've not driven a USDM STi - just the JDM versions. If they are indeed the same, or similar enough, then it's likely the USDM Evo is going to face stiff competition from it. The JDM Evo already does from the JDM STi - and this is from the PUMA Evo driver.
However, both cars drive differently. One thing I've noticed in racing is that every top level race driver has preferences - we all do. Simply put, I'll be faster in certain cars vs. other cars, and it has nothing to do with the inherent ability of the car itself. Even if the Evo or the STi is "inherently" faster than the other, it's quite possible that even the most professional of drivers is going to be faster in the "slower" car if it matches his driving style. And when the time difference around the track is measured in 10's of a second between two cars, then whichever one suits you more is going to be faster, period.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
I'm glad that people are starting to get the point about handling, and why I've always been a bit amused how people would label the WRX as a "great" handling car. Or that it was high-powered in any way.
The USDM Evo is basically entry-level performance in the Japanese leagues. Great chassis, great suspension setup, good tyres, good brakes. However, only the center and rear diff with an open diff in the front. Doesn't mean that it's bad, but as far as professional-level driving goes, a front diff would bring it up to the basic specs that the JDM STi and Evo's enjoy.
I've not driven a USDM STi - just the JDM versions. If they are indeed the same, or similar enough, then it's likely the USDM Evo is going to face stiff competition from it. The JDM Evo already does from the JDM STi - and this is from the PUMA Evo driver.
However, both cars drive differently. One thing I've noticed in racing is that every top level race driver has preferences - we all do. Simply put, I'll be faster in certain cars vs. other cars, and it has nothing to do with the inherent ability of the car itself. Even if the Evo or the STi is "inherently" faster than the other, it's quite possible that even the most professional of drivers is going to be faster in the "slower" car if it matches his driving style. And when the time difference around the track is measured in 10's of a second between two cars, then whichever one suits you more is going to be faster, period.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
The suby is softer - smoother - but you have less controll at the edge - in my opinion better for a daily driver - - - the EVO is more race like less practical
I have a JDM car show movie in which the STI and the EVO go head to head on a drag strip , raod course and race track - this was EVO VII vs. STI Vii - - needless to say - the EVO blew away the STI - in fact they had two different evo versions and two sti versions - basically the STI is a nose plowing pig compared to the evo and its way slower