....that with all these good times being posted, that 1, vishnu's dyno reads are either ultra-conservative. Or, 2 he is full of crap when he posted those dyno runs. Which I don't really think he is, but people he is in the business to make money. So I can see him pulling back on the settings on the dyno to make it look like this car is running alot less power than it really was. There is NO WAY that this car is putting 180-190hp to the ground with those times it has to be at least 200-210. I just find this interesting, when everyone else that dynoed their cars....(as what it seemed to me) got in the 220-230 range on the awd dynos. Yes, I can see those being high by 10 or so horses. But there is no way on God's lovely green earth that car is only putting down 190hp. Just my 2 cents. I was not here to flame them on their claim, just here to bring this back up now that it has died down about the 180-190hp claim now that people are running some good 1/4's. The 2 numbers do not correlate at all. That's all I am trying to show.

 

Also, everyone that has done quarter mile racing so far has done so on at least 93 (mostly 94) octane if I'm not mistaken. All of shiv's dyno results were on CA 91 octane which sucks donkey *****.

 

I put in the 190 hp rating to show the claim for the 93 octane run they did.

 

I've put 240 whp but the dyno pack seems to read higher than dyno jet and dyno dynamics. Shiv's dyno has always read low. 165hp for WRX was upseting for owners also. I'd love to dyno my car on shiv's dyno to see what is really going on. We all know that shivs ran a 230hp on the evo 7 so how much hp does a evo 7 run on a dynojet or dynopack? THe bottom line is how much hp added to stock. If we get 109mph trap speed we know his kit works. Until shiv's stages are track tested by many we will always have doubt because most tuners show their slips.

There were mentioning on 14sec evos on nasioc. Perhaps those are the california 91 octane 180hp versions? I've bogged the car with 2.1 60ft and still went 13.78 at over 101mph. You have to be really sleeping to run a 14 sec pass.

 

initial dyno numbers are irrelevant other then for bragging rights. what really matters is the percentage of power gained as you add modifications to your car. no two tuning shops are going to have the exact same policy/procedure towards dyno tuning, regardless of the hardware involved. I am not defending or slamming any of the tuning shops that are represented here - I am just trying to restate the initial numbers don't mean squat except a baseline number to work off of. you could call your initial dyno plots "X" and then work from there, cause that initial number is a variable, and nothing more concrete - it's all about % gain...

 

I understand the way dynos are all different and you should just work off the base dyno run. So all your tuning stays constant and true to the base run. But, I am just saying from the standpoint of his dyno run to the numbers that people are producing on the track do not correlate at all. There is to big of a margin for even a 190 hp car to make a 13.2 sec pass in the 1/4. I may be way off on this but it just seems a little off. The reason I am saying this is because of all the crap the evo took and that people took shiv's dyno runs as concrete numbers.

 

GTR- I just think it is funny that some of the scooby crowd is having a hard time admiting to themselves the evo is more car than people made it out to be (because of vishnu mainly). His numbers did a toll on our car in terms of the way people look at it. The saying "only 30 more hp than our stock WRXs...that sucks". That still rings in my head. I knew it was wrong and it is wrong and these time slips prove it. But, back to the suby crowd. I read that thread where you got the 14 sec passes from. That dude was a downright idiot. Another example, when the guy that did the 13.1 sec posted the times and speeds....guess who was over here not believing it. You got it the suby crowd. Sorry to get off topic but I had to respond to this

 

Shiv's numbers may be spot on, who knows - it just doesn't matter...

if Shiv dynos an evo at X and a skilled driver runs 13.3
and Pruven dynos an evo at Y and a skilled driver runs 13.3

then: X = Y (give or take)

if Vishnu adds 20% (X + 20%) hp with stage 1 and runs 12.6
and Pruven adds 20% (Y + 20%) hp with stage 1 mods and runs 12.6

then X = Y (there are a TON of veriables to work into this equation, but we are talking rough generalizations here)

I don't know if shiv is full of sh*t or just trying to get business, he seems like a sharp guy.... What I suspect the real issue thing MMC sandbagged was the weight. One of the big East Coast DSM tuners weighed theres in at 3160 or so, wet (minus the driver of course) which is 100+ pounds lighter then the MMC numbers - this could be part of the reason the Evo is surprising some of us with it's stock 1/4 times.

also, I think there are some very skilled & experienced draggers on this forum that can extract the max potential out of the Evo.

 

Dynos are different, even the same model dyno will give varying readings due to the way the operator sets up the parameters. Thats fairly obvious.

Whats not as obvious is the fact that Vishnu's information is passed out as the gospel across the internet, and effects people's views of the Evo as well as Mitsubishi's sales and image. He has current owners bandying the "lawsuit" word about for fraudulent manufacturer horsepower claims (exactly as happened with the '99 Ford Cobra). If I was him I would definitely be more circumspect about claims like this, especially the "ringer test car" statements. I personally wouldn't want the legal department of so large a corporation as or their part owners Chrysler/Daimler inquiring into my business...

 

Are you serious. Perhaps mitsubishi wanted the STi to be heavy so they will not emphasizes on weight reduction towards their cars? Perhaps i should weight in my car to find out? Interesting theory. A 3263lb lie?

 

That and the fact that Road and Track could only get 13.8, while SCC got 13.6 this year out of an EVO 8 and 13.5 last year out of a 300 hp evo 7.

13.1 is kinda quick. Anyway, time will tell. Soon there will be many more official numbers. Frankly I don't know what's taking some of the mags and websites so long to test the EVO 8.

Too busy rating the electronic fanny warmer/***** in the latest Mini-Van I guess.

 

I don't think anyone every accused the editors of any of those publications of being excellent drivers... (or skilled writers for that matter )

 

Here is the reason Road & Track got a 13.8...

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthrea...hreadid=101463

 

FWIW, the SCC EVO ran a 13.2@104mph at LACR. Again, it dyno'd 10-20 wheel hp more than any other EVO we've tested.

Shiv

 

While dynos are not ultimate in proving things, 1/4 mile times are far from exact measurements... uneven terrain, different pavement, temps, altitude, etc. Even with all else equal you still have driver error as a factor and that's a huge one... the same driver can have drastically different times from one run to the next.

As far at the 190whp on Shivs dyno... that's still just a comparison to the whp various other cars on that dyno have gotten (Ex WRX, JDM Evo 7). It doesn't make the US Evo a slow poke in any sense, but it did show 91 octane has a serious effect on the cars hp output and the press car and JDM Evo were making significantly more whp on that same dyno... that's all it really says.

Mark