Very easy, just remove the boost hose from the actuator.

 

Maybe your buds are able to control peak boost with this shortcut mod. But, it has to have a negative impact on spool up. At least, I'd think so.

But, they are doing this mostly for the sound of the gate venting to atmosphere, as you mentioned, right? And in certain automotive circles such as ghetto gas station hangouts it might be considered cutting edge.... Kinda like Lambo doors on Hondas, or blue neon lights in the wheel wells, and etc.

 

I think this works well because two cylinders are released and the other two are not enough to keep the turbine spinning so the boost is well regulated. The function of the wastegate is simple, is to release the pressure of the exhaust manifold and this accomplishes that. is like having a controled leak in the exhaust manifold

 

Yes, I understand, these are the rare inventions that are in my country, I just wanted to share in the forum to find some inconvenient.

 

this is a result of cheap ***** doing ghetto mods. happens on every car forum.

 

You are mistaken. Removal of the hose by itself is not a definitive means of keeping the internal wastegate's flapper valve shut on its seat under all circumstances. Whether or not the flapper valve, in fact, opens prematurely or not would depend on the level of wastegate spring pressure. If the spring pressure is adjusted low, then the flapper valve is most likely going to be lifting off its seat.

I take it that these friends of yours are not interested in quick turbo spool up. They cannot just assume that the flapper valve is keeping shut. Once seat pressure exceeds spring pressure then the flapper valve is going to open. Merely removing the hose is not going to keep the internal gate shut... Duh!

However, as a practical matter there is an effective way to keep the internal gate shut without welding it, wiring it shut, or jerry-rigging a chain, hook and turnbuckle onto it. Do you wonder what that method is?

 

Your are something wrong my friend, if you remove the hose from the actuator your boost will be crazy, the turbo will charge all the boost possible, no matter how hard actuator spring it's have. if the actuator spring is 12psi only if the boost inside de actuator diaphragm is 12psi the exhaust valve will opens. if it never gets boost inside the actuator the valve will never open.

 

yes!!!, in complete agreement

 

Wrong. Don't say never. On a stock internally gated system(although probably not in the weird dual-gated system featured in your thread) eventually, at a high enough level of boost the flapper valve will open even with the boost control hose disconnected from the WGA's signal port. You need to take into account the force of the exhaust pressure within the exhaust system and specifically inside the turbine housing's inlet area. This exhaust pressure is usually about double what the indicated boost pressure is. In effect, this relatively high exhaust pressure inside the turbine housing is capable of lifting the flapper valve even with the hose disconnected on a stock type Evo setup.... sooner or later.

With the boost control line disconnected from the port on the actuator, initially exhaust pressure inside the housing will have to overcome the force of the 12 lb. actuator spring. So, the valve will open once exhaust pressure reaches some level above 12 PSI. But, exactly at what level above 12 PSI will it open?

I figure that it will open at a level above 19 PSI. Why? Because, if you disconnect the actuator all together and just have the flapper valve sitting loosely on its seat on the turbine housing the 16G turbo will only boost to about 6-7 PSI. So, to that 7 PSI add the 12 lbs. of the actuator spring.

In actuality I think that the stock Mitsu actuators on the 16G's come fitted with a 14 lb. spring. So, the way I see it, the flapper valve on a 16G turbo with the boost control hose disconnected at the port on the WGA, should open, or at least crack, or start to lift off its seat at 21 PSI of boost pressure, or thereabouts.

 

The waste gate mod that your local friends use is essentially a dual gated system. They are adding a second(remote) gate. But, the flapper valve on the 16G is not sealed(welded) shut. Instead they are merely removing the actuator's boost control line. In a situation like you have described the remote gate may act as the primary gate. while the stock integral gate becomes the secondary gate.

In practice however, the new additional, remote gate being pre-turbine, is doing the most of the work venting exhaust pressure before it reaches the turbine. This would depend mostly on the spring rate of the remote gate. Probably, the way that your friends have it set up, the original, internal gate probably would never open as it only bypasses the exhaust flow from two cylinders.

 

ok, disconnect your hose boost from your actuator and see what happens, if your internal wastegate valve opens, I will pay you $200 if not you pay me $200 bets or not?

maybe some engine pieces falling here in my country.

 

I am bumping this thread back up from the depths of its crypt on page two because the OP(jonmorera) and I don't see eye to eye on the issue of whether or not a flapper valve on an internally gated turbo would still be able to lift up off its seat on the turbine housing if the boost control hose is removed from the port on the wastegate actuator canister.

The OP is convinced that the flapper will never be able to move or lift off its seat if the boost control hose on the actuator port is removed even as exhaust pressure inside the turbine housing increases while the compressor boosts higher and higher. I, on the other hand, am of the opinion that the flapper valve will eventually open once exhaust pressure exceeds the rated force of the WGA's spring.

At any rate he and I have been "debating" this point via PM's for a couple of days. He says that I am dead wrong on the issue. Of course, it would not be the first time in my life that I am wrong. What do some of the Gurus out there think? Does anyone care to wade in with their opinion or make any observations that might solve the issue.

My view is basically that since that the exhaust system's exhaust gas pressure at the turbo is usually accepted to be approximately twice or double the compressor's boost pressure(i.e., Corky Bell, et. al.) that this exhaust pressure pushing on the face of the flapper valve will EVENTUALLY overcome the force of the actuator spring(about 12 to 14 PSI) on a stock actuator, even without the help of boost signal pressure through the hose(disconnected) pushing on the actuator's diaphragm.

Who is right and who is wrong?

 

I'm completly sure what I said.

The pressure inside the exhaust manifold never can open the flap flap of the internal wastegate, the actuator infringe strong force over the flap valve.

One thing is the pressure that the turbo does and the other is the pressure in the exhaust manifold is.

what you say is absurd, if what you say is true, then also the head valves would be open for the pressure in the exhaust manifold???. you are crazy man.

WHAT EVER, hopefully other opinions, I'm quite sure what I say.

 

"sparky" you are CORRECT in your statemenet and information. "jonmorera" you are WRONG here sir. i will bet you that $200 because i can vouch for this as for even not on a stock internal waste gate this can happen. i put a 18 psi fp internal wg on my evo 9 and when installing it i forgot to hook my boost line back up to my actuator port. took the car out and did a pull and i hit 28psi of boost and it fell down to 26psi and held there. so i stopped and tried adjusting my halman boost controler to turn it down a little. but with no luck it stayed at the same spot. so i stopped and thought for a second on my installation procedure and remembered duh... stupid you didnt hook up your vaccum line to the wg. i looked sure enough that was it. i hooked it back up did another pull and it held steady at 19psi. so that just goes to show that the exhaust gases have alot of pressure pushing on the wg flapper which can over come the wg spring pressure at a certain point weather it has the vaccumm hooked up or not.

still not convinced "jonmorea" here is more proof after getting everything straightened out i procceded to tune my boost level up to where i would like it to run. i am running 26 psi holding firm until i reach about 5800rpms where it procedes to taper off to 21psi by 7200rpm nd holding at 21psi from there till 7800rpms where i shift. you say oh there must be something worng with my wg actuator?? nope your wrong there is nothing wrong with it because if i set my peak boost at 21psi it will stay there from 3800rpms the entire way to 7800rpms. when trying to hold that higher boost it crosses that line at 5800rpms where there is so much exhaust gas increased flow that the pressure becomes more than the wg spring pressure can hold and the gases push it open farther than required to hold that 26psi so therefore causing the boost to fall once it crosses that pressure thresh hold.

if you still dont believe this is correct your to ignorant to admit your wrong and just had misinterpreted thoughts on the subject because i just gave you 2 first hand experiences and descriptions of this being able to happen. hope you can learn a little on here and spread the correct knoledge to your friends

 

as I said, I am firm about what I said, what happened with your turbo was given the boost it could give, you took him to the limit. the turbo could not give more than 28psi or you think your turbo could provide up to 40psi?