True, the market rarely rewards "percieved" quality for long. Pretty soon, somebody will notice that they are getting the shaft. Hondas have the highest resale value in the industry combined with the worst warranties not because of perception, but because of truth.

 

Honda/Acura has just done the smart thing and kept things simple. They build lightweight, small displacement, front wheel drive, normally aspirated setups. Since most of "quality" is based around drivetrain reliability, this formula makes it easy to build lasting drivetrains. Keeping heat down is the biggest factor in longevity. no super charger or turbo is a big help, plus it keeps torquwe down, so clutches are under less stress. plus they have less driveline resistance being FWD. small displacement helps keep engine size down and heat generation down. Its a pretty simple formula for long lasting drivelines. It's pretty similar to the Formula1 setup. they just happen to move it all the back. Small displacement, normally aspirated, transverse (either FF, or MR, RR) helps keep drivetrain simple and the number of things that can break down.

The build tolerances or engineer smarts are no different between manufacturers for the most part. But keeping an entire model lineup to a simple formula sure helps make transportation tools last.

But that is not a corporate culture shared by Chrysler, Mitsubishi, or Mercedes. They like the big heavy, hot running, turbo'd, AWD, complex setups. It's hard to compare most any other manuf to Honda. Honda is a very unique manuf in the market. It wasn't too long ago Accords were still loved by the public for their longevity and they were only offered with 4cyls. The masses tend to set the standards ( as low as they may be for the LCD ) and are often set for mundane reasons. So their quality is not such a prestigious or remarkable thing IMHO, just the cumulative opinion of the sheep.

 

Honda makes value, meaning cheaper cars for the dollar. as to the perceived quality, it is the same as for mitsubishi. and it is true, it is perceived quality because honda became known first. simple materials, simple build is what honda is accustomed to. reliability, they are the same, do not be jaded by the honda brand being touted by the car magazines, they don't own the cars and pay for the repairs, it is the consumer. My 2002 honda civic, after 6 months from new began rusting. the cloth seat are not perfect and would scuff easily. the ride, was so harsh I cannot believe the editors gave it high marks. my lancer rental rode better. as to the recalls only affecting some american brands and mitsubishi(?), honda have recalls of their own, how many oddyseys have had their transmissions replaced because of failure, acura TL/RL transmission failures and now the honda pilot recalls for brake shims and transmission for possible failure and other problems announced as TSB instead of recalls to escape the news media radar. If it was mitsu, it would have been front page news but honda, that's a different story. Perceived quality? that's the truth!

 

That's exactly the stuff I'm talking about. A Honda will win a mag comparo based on its past history rather then an objective look at the current product IMO. Whereas a Mitsu will get the shaft because its "ugly" or some company higher ups dove on their swords four years ago for hiding warranty claims. Kidding.

That's great but how long can they keep that up? Can they grow and dominate every area of the market with that same formula? Can every car be based on a Civic or Accord platform with FWD and a 4cyl up front? No. That's why Toyota is(will be) #1. Honda wants a peice of that action and to do it they are going to have to venture out of their safety zone of 4cyl FWD to make trucks and SUVs. I see they are going to try to bring the first unibody transverse truck to market based on the Pilot chassis, which is bassed on the Odysee chassis, which is based on the Accord chassis.

Of course it will have its following, what I'm getting at is, they'll never be class leaders with tranverse front drive V6's especially with tranny problems. America is going to want, no demand, something more complicated and that's where your AWD's, turbos, V8's, FR platforms and ingenuity come in.

 

People demand convenience and reliabilty, 95% of the masses don't even know what's under their hood, let alone care. No one demands ingenuity or complexity, unless it's a better beer holder in the car.. They want to get around to by smokes, get good gas mileage, have tires that last foreever and stays shiny and ding free always. Honda and Saturn are doing want most people demand. That's why they sell and their resale value is high. For the small percentage of folks who actually know what an I5, Flat 6, V10, Turbo charger, super charger, cam, valve, diff are, look like and do and unfortunately can explain it to any doofus who asks and then later regrets the pain the knowledge caused them, well we can hope they keep making unique innovative toys for the enthusaist. But don't expect people to demand anything.. heck even when their tax dollars are being wasted and economies ruined for the benefit of a very small select few people sit by idly with their thumb up their ****.. If they don't care about things that can affect their entier life and generations to come, why would they give two squirts of **** over a car that will fall apart and be junked in under a decade.

People don't care. and most that pretend to, just ***** and whine and still do nothing.

 

Amen! Preach on brother 2zx3, preach on! Testify...

 

I disagree. In my line of work I meet more then 5% who want to know what technical features a car has to offer over another.

One out of two. Saturn resale is most certainly not high and the L-series is about to be cancelled because of low sales. And again Honda does dominate the compact car market with the Civic, and they are second to the Camry in midsize cars with the Accord, but that's it - the don't own the large truck segment, small truck segment, or big SUV segment or even midsize SUV. That's about 50% of the market right now.

The number one selling vehicle in the country is the Ford F-150. Toyota and Nissan are going after that market right now with the Tundra and Titan. I don't think Honda is going to cut it with a transverse mounted motor on a unibody chassis with a tranny that has up until now a suspect track record. In that market you have to have 6000lb+ towing capacity to play, 8000+ to be a big dog. Not the weak ~3500 the Pilot has now. I am not sugesting that Honda create a diesel one ton pickup to challenge Ford's F-250 and F-350, but it isn't an unreasonable prediction that Toyota or Nissan might try in the near future. It is also silly to say that all those people don't "demand" bigger stronger trucks and would gladly trade them for Honda unibodies. That those vehicles are inherently unreliable becasue the don't follow Honda's simple formula. Domestic trucks have some of the highest resale values that I have witnessed, as high as any Honda or Toyota or higher. And are extremely reliable. And you are saying all the farmers, tow truck drivers, construction workers, movers, surfers, off roaders, people who live and work and those who play with their trucks are just fringe enthusiast buyers to you? They need their turbodiesels, their v10s, superchargers, viscous diffs, traction control, innovative valve timing. The market does indeed DEMAND it. Maybe only the engineers can actually explain the tech bits, but it can be appreciated by the common man.

 

That runs through a lot of different fields there, but most people when they narrow down their short list to the things they aere looking for in a vehicle, *MOST* have no technical interest or concern.

What is the #1 reason most people by a particular vehicle? Color. What does that say.. Next up.. Brand.. - From percieved social casteing.. Once they have narrowed down to wanting a Green Mercedes they may ask some questions to find out something they can regurgitate to their acquantances. Few if any are going to say.. Oh this doesn't have VTEC, sorry no sale, or This has 13.5 ft lbs of torque less than the other green merc, nope..

Just my experience, I have still yet to meet and talk with everyone in the world.. which inlcudes all the US peeps.

 

Just out of curiousity, do you have any proof for your assertions? I think that you my be overstating a stereotype. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, I just think that you may be taking the logical conclusion a bit too far.

I would hardly say that people consider color before the kind of car they want...

 

It's not free, and it's not cheap, and it's sensative copyright material, but - www.marketresearch.com . This is most related to automotive - general marketwatch reportings. Working with marketing people creating data warehouses with all the information you hope no one would ever have on you, it's quite an interesting view of the country. But information is only as good as its source.

http://www.marketresearch.com/browse...1826-365331567

 

when marketing dictates what kind of cars we like, we see the proliferation of hyundais, kias which are cheap automobiles and the demand for bland designs of the honda accord and toyota camry which are marketed for the masses. nothing wrong with that because they make good money.

 

Yep, the almost every industry is about maximizing profits.. Funny how business works..

 

very well said

 

I would like to re-state how important "perceived quality" is.
Perceived quality is based on general public opinion, which is primarily formed via the media and word of mouth (i.e. intangible variables), and (to much smaller degree) actual physical attributes.
GM, for example, is working very hard on changing comsumer perception. A quality defect is much easier to fix, since it involves changing or redesigning a part (something the manufacturer is in direct control of). Perceived quality cannot be directly controlled by the car maker and is much harder to influence since there are so many outside variables.
Also, one needs to be careful when using survey-based research to quantify quality/reliabilty. In addition, the J.D. Power initial quality survey is really NOT a good predictor of actual quality, since it only looks at a consumers experience over a 30-day period. Further, the questions and the way the responses are weighted contain an inherent bias, since it is based on J.D.Powers' (obviously researched) scale. Yet, that scale may place emphasis elsewhere than you and I (i.e cup holders, which the new Mini lacked and was docked down for)...
I'm not saying that J.D. Powers is biased and playing favorites. It's simply important to know that these surveys are not the be all end all. Unfortunately, the media spoon feeds these numbers to the "sheep", and the manufacturers tout them as such.
It is in part 's poor performance in these surveys that has caused the poor perception. Not to say that they didn't deserve it, their dealer service is pretty poor (there's a J.D. Power survey for that too :P )

 

So how does Mitsu fix the problems and the perception? It's been a year now and I can't say I have seen any worthwhile changes. The 10/100k warranty is the only change I can recall. Dealer Network training or improved customer support does not appear to have been considered.