ultra light carbon trunk + hood, opinions
 

we are looking at making some carbon body work for the evo 8+9 right now, and wanted to get an idea of what people would consider.

since most hoods i have seen are heavier then the stock hood, i told Alejandro (the composite guy) that we wanted the lightest hood possible. great fitment is a must too. i just feel the "cool" hood market, the hoods with all the scoops, vents and mesh are just way to "cheap", flimsy and have lousy fitment.

anyway, the hood we already have a stock hood for making the mold. it will be made with prepreg carbon and baked in an autoclave. alejandro is making one for mark Berrys X-mod autocross car as a prototype. it will be followed by a ultralight trunk as well.

here are some examples of the work alejandro can do:
the wings, sidepods, undertray, rims, steering wheel, and nose (not pictured) are all carbon done the same way we will be doing the hood and trunk for the evo (except the race car doesn't have any paint or clearcoat on any of the carbon stuff, which we can do for the evo)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34.../F06/f0611.jpg


also, if people could give me a good estimate of what you would pay for a ultra light trunk/hood that will help too. robispec trunks are the lightest i have seen, but are also very pricey 900 dollars i believe....

thanks!

definitely light and great looks. at the last autox i went to the guy was like, yeah i think your carbon fiber hood puts you in street mod class. I then answered back saying thats stupid because it actually weighs a pound more than stock and he said it didn't matter. so +1 for me wanting a carbon fiber hood that weighs less.

I would love to see a stock looking hood in a Lighter carbon fiber

As light as possible while still being sturdy enough for the track/DD, and low enough flex that it will not crack off paint, and with good enough fitment that it is basically ready to be painted and installed, and not too crazy with the vents so that it looks rice though a little functional venting is okay. Basically, a light weight sleeper hood {thumbup}

But, for the typical buyer I would think that looks and price are the key

/\/\/\/\ i agree i would like a better cf hood than mine and a keyless trunk.


STevo

Definitely a stock type hood and trunk that are as light as possible and not painted or clearcoated for best pricing.

The reasoning behind my statement is that the bling segment of the market is taken(bling rich kids always stay loyal to specific namebrand) as well as the nice looking light but super expensive(robispec).

The grasroot/track junky/motorsport section of the market is the only segment that requires a vendor to step in and fill the void.
I believe that if you offer a very light unexpensive wood and especially trunk you'll get the business of all the serious racers that could careless about finish but worry about weight and are on a realistic racing budget. I know for sure I'll buy from you like many others.

^ thats exactly what we were thinking. make it as light as possible and let the end user determine the finish. the carbon finish is pretty good with just the resin, but clear coating does make it shine. additionally some may preffer to have it painted.

It has begun.
 

Alright guys. We have taken all your opinions into account and have begun the production of the ultra light Evo 8/9 hood with stock mounting.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...v/DSC_0808.jpg
Mark Berry provided us with an EXCELLENT hood to start from.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...v/DSC_0813.jpg
Richie applying the face of the tool to Marks BEAUTIFUL hood. :crap: Dont worry, its not as bad as it looks.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...v/DSC_0820.jpg
Now the layup may begin!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...v/DSC_0822.jpg
The first layers of fabric for the tooling.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...v/DSC_0826.jpg
A sample of the finish you can expect from our parts. Its not deep like the stuff you usually see because prepreg carbon has an almost IDEAL amount of resin in it. That means that the fibers are going to be much closer to the surface. The end result will be an almost matte finish. The awesome part about it is its WAY lighter than a traditional Seibon wet-lay up hood.

Once we finish Marks prototype part, we will be able to guage how much a completely bolt on part will cost.

Please give us your opinions so we can build a part that the evo community wants!

can't wait to see the results...

weird, I was just sitting here wondering why there were almost no ultra lightweight CF hoods on the market for these cars, and then I saw this thread... make 'em as light as possible!

oem style.

The trunk will be strong enough to support a functional rear wing, right?

ya why would i ever buy a cf hood if my strock alum one is lighter, lets get some weight numbers guys! comparisons would rock, especially b/w brands and vs stock

Sign me up ! Prepreg, Autoclave ?!?! What !? How many layers? What weave ? 2x2? How many lbs?

The trunk can be made strong enough to mount a rear wing. However, it would be helpful if the wing had stock mounting points. Remember, the less custom the part is, the easier and faster it is to make.

Prepreg, yes.
Autoclave, no. It will be cured in an oven under vacuum. (same as autoclave at 15 psi w/ vented bag, no?)
6 layers.
Plain Weave.

Yeah, stock mounting is cool, most wings are designed for that and any that aren't would need customization even on a stock trunk, so that shouldn't be a big deal for anyone.

Edit: I think you should see if people want the stock key and wing holes punched out. I personally would rather the trunk be smooth so I can make my own holes where I need them.

I've had both a CF hood and trunk for a while now (OEM shape for weight savings). I like the hood and love my hood pins - consider selling them with Aerocatches pre-installed, I think that might be a good selling point.

I don't like my trunk, it is very light but flexes too much. At high speed (100+) it will give enough to change the angle of attack of the rear wing so much it might as well be producing lift :(. When it's freshly waxed (not that often admittedly) you can also see where the skin sags very slightly in the sections where there's no support underneath.

Have you considered using carbon foam or aluminum honeycomb for the understructure? It would make a seriously stiff structure for very little weight. There are CF pieces for other cars using these technologies, but none for the Evo that I know of.

Alright guys. Just wanted to show you guys some pics to let you know we are making progress.

Richie finished the mold yesterday so we finally got to see the tool for the first time today! Here are the results:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0014.jpg
The hood as it sits in the tool before we remove it.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0015.jpg
Finally got the stock hood out! It needs to be finished still but as you can see, the areas we pulled from the hood look excellent!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0016.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0017.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0018.jpg

We'll be sure to keep you guys updated. We should have a skin for Mark Berry by next week.

WOW! Very nice!

Just FYI for everyone... I worked on the race team pictured in post #1 for 7 years while I was at school, and I assure you this is some of the best carbon work you will find out there! Aero space grade prepreg carbonfiber, the works!

NICE WORK SO FAR!!!

Damn Kevin! You have come a long way from the 944 in Michigan...lol :) Hope all is well!

Just found this post and I have to say that hood mold looks nice. I'd definitely be interested in a light as possible hood and/or trunk with a natural (dull) carbon fiber finish: function>form! +1 on making the trunk able to mount the stock wing also.

Wow that looks GREAT! Will you guys be able to price the hood less than Seibon or other JDM hoods? I would also prefer the hood in it's natural color with maybe a clear bra on it.

So when this is done how much will you think you would be selling for. I know if its going to be cheaper then everyone else you will sell like hot cakes. Please pm price when you get a chance.

YA..... guesstimated price would be nice since i have an insurance claim going thruogh right now!{thumbup}


p.s..... i have a buddy that has a CF ultra light weight hood and from the bottom you can see through it. if you can, avoid this! it makes his hood look cheap and flimsy when he has it open!

ok guys.

Seibon is making almost the same hoods we are, except ours are going to be stock-style.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...rue+dry+carbon


Unfortunately, we will not be able to sell a bolt on hood for $900. There is too much labor for it to be feasible. However, we are trying our hardest to be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the Seibon true dry carbon hood, while maintaining the same weight.

An EXTREMELY ROUGH ESTIMATE puts us at about $1500. We cannot compete in volume. But where we can shine is in quality. Our parts will be made using aerospace-grade materials. The prepreg manufacturer we use is the same manufacturer that mercedes mclaren uses for their F1 chassis! We arent messing around with cheap stuff here guys!

Anyway, here is another mold shot!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0020.jpg
Mold after trimming getting ready for a post cure.

I'll take one with some custom painting done to it :D.

oops....

I stand by my last comment :lol:.

Subscribed, looking forward to the results as I am very interested in this piece.

yeah, the evo thing has really taken off {thumbup} i still remember seeing your evo when we went to the drag strip ohhhh, about 4-5 years ago. :lol: it inspired me to get one

Mold looks great Alex - can't wait to mount the hood on the car. :yum: It will be the jewel on the lightweight quest to reach the Evo's diet goal of hitting 2400lbs. {thumbup}

cant wait for the end results...let us know how it goes!

that price seems high I thought robispec hoods were way under a thousand? I'm probably wrong but I thought 600

Those look like some of the UTA cars, no? Dr. Bob is the man!

My CF splitter and wing were done by a former member of the SVSU FSAE team. Keep the updates coming!

you don't know dr. bob like i do :lol: lets just say we don't exactly agree on anything related to cars... and yes, they are the UTA cars :) and we talked with the SVSU guys for a while a couple years back last time i was in detroit.

yeah, i believe your wrong. from a quick search here, his trunk is 750. the hood is 850 and 100 more for the hood latch/pin things, not including shipping

I don't actually know him. I just know he and the UTA guys have kicked butt at Topeka the past 2 years I was there. The aero packages are top-notch . . . I especially like the compact design on the car in the background of the pic. Was that the '07 car?

the car in the background is 05. the compact aero design is very inefficient. the low rear wing doesn't get clean air, the middle endplates hurt overall downforce, and the tiny front wing made very little downforce. most of the downforce made by those cars was from the undertray. the 06 car pictured had much bigger wings, more surface area, higher up rear wing, and a way more efficient front wing. but thats because it didn't have the silly "aero in the bell crank" design. 07 had a better design then the 04/05 "aero in the bellcrank" design, but it was still "aero in the swaybar" which i still think is silly. 07 is quite a bit better then 05 though. but 06 still rules all!!! (alejando would agree huh alejandro)

Below are a couple of pics we did for the SVSU FSAE Team a couple years ago. Needless to say we tested the aero on the FSAE car around a mid speed auto X track (15 - 30 mph corners) and proved an 11% decrees in lap times with the aero. But some of the "Team Leaders" still were not convinced that aero is worth it in FSAE. Anyways it was a great experience and proved that yes aero will make you faster - even in FSAE!

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/phot...21434_5201.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...21435_5495.jpg

QUOTE=KevinD;5899013]the car in the background is 05. the compact aero design is very inefficient. the low rear wing doesn't get clean air, the middle endplates hurt overall downforce, and the tiny front wing made very little downforce. most of the downforce made by those cars was from the undertray. the 06 car pictured had much bigger wings, more surface area, higher up rear wing, and a way more efficient front wing. but thats because it didn't have the silly "aero in the bell crank" design. 07 had a better design then the 04/05 "aero in the bellcrank" design, but it was still "aero in the swaybar" which i still think is silly. 07 is quite a bit better then 05 though. but 06 still rules all!!! (alejando would agree huh alejandro)[/QUOTE]

Since we are on the FSAE subject..... I have to put my two cents in.......
'06 has a special place in my heart for sure, but the winged beast that is 2003 is by far the best aero package uta has ever done!

http://lh4.ggpht.com/ms.lehon/SH-L6a.../s288/2003.JPG

until someone decided that 03 works better as a plow then a race car...

The only reason 06 still has wings is because that certain someone (Not me) has never driven 06, after Nationals this year, 06 will also be a broken cone plow :-)


Regardless, the hood is going to be awesome!

Alright guys!!!

Enough about FSAE. Lets talk about carbon hoods. ;)

I am laying up Marks hood as we speak! Right now, it is debulking and I am taking this chance to upload some pictures.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0003.jpg
Ho ya! Pre-preg baby.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0002.jpg
The second layer. Notice the bumpiness. That is the carbon not laying down quite right. The tool has been released so that carbon doesnt stick to it. However, there is a solution....

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0005.jpg
Suck REEALLY HARD!! heheheheheh...

Ok, better get back to work. Im going solo on this one because Richies wife just had surgery and he was unable to help out.

Oh yah, and UTA F08 is the ultimate FSAE car. Hands down. {thumbup}

WHERE ARE THE PICTURES!!! '


mark said you put it on his car and it is "spectacular". and the lightest hood ever made for an evo to boot :thumbup:

I'll let Alex post the pictures and give numbers, but this is by far the lightest Evo hood available, bar none, built with Aerospace quality process/material.

We laid it in place last night to snap a few pictures and will be installing it this morning with Dzus fasteners. When I tap on it, it sounds more like metal than carbon. We found ourselves having to be careful if a breeze came through the shop, because the hood could blow off the car! It's that light and I do not exagerate. {thumbup}

Look forward to the pictures.

Mark

Sorry guys! I got home, sat on the computer and passed out! Im awake now though so Ill go ahead and post the pics

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0012.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0013.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...DSC_0014-1.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...DSC_0015-1.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...DSC_0016-1.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0019.jpg
The skin weighs just 5lbs after trimming. {thumbup}

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...DSC_0020-1.jpg
Here is the hood prior to mounting. It should be flush and aligned once its installed.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...e/DSC_0030.jpg
It is only fitting that the lightest hood ever go on the lightest Evo in the country! I can't wait to see it mounted!

That looks incredible! Bump for true engineering.
-Alex@ECS

Hood looks great man. I am super interested. I just PM'ed Robi lastnight about pricing for a hood and trunk.

I need something before the DSM/Evo shoot-out in a few weeks though?!

Thinking about doing fenders, bumpers or side skirts if this goes well?

God that matte finish is sexy!

If you want the same thing as Mark, it can be done. But we just gave Mark a skin, and he is taking care of installing it on the car. If you are still interested, send KevinD from evolution dynamics a PM.

The hood with the stock mounting is at least a month away from being completed.

Yah! Im really quite smitten with that matte finish! The finished products probably wont be as matte.

If this goes well, we will probably do the trunk followed by a hood for an Evo X. I dont know what the demand is for fenders or side-skirts so I am a bit hesitant in going down that road.

What kind of supports are you thinking for the trunk. I'm definately interested if it would suport my Voltex wing.

i didn't get a chance to go see the car yesterday cause i was finishing a 6speed to 5 speed swap, but the pictures look sweet alejandro!

Looks awesome alex! I guess Ill have to get in line for mine! :-)

The matte finish looks even better in person, it is all very uniform because of the hight quality carbon, aerospace gade {thumbup}!! We have done wings noses etc for the fSAE cars and they always look soo sexy in the matte then we go and paint them all {thumbdwn}

Very nice hood, keep up the awesome work guys!

:spit: {OMG} :drool: well i got hail damage this weekend my cf hood is cracked in 12 places and trunk is dinged to.... time for light weight cf hood??????

that think looks great congrats!!!!


STevo

^Why not get two, just incase something happens again {thumbup} j/k

Carbon fibre touching aluminum is bad.
Corrosion problems.
This can be fixed with a barrier ply of fiberglass. No direct contact = no problem
Also, instead of aluminum honeycomb, Hexcel nomex honeycomb is the stuff (these) dreams are made of.
Another good point is, if using honeycomb and installing wings, spacers/inserts must be used to prevent core crush.

that looks great.

bump- does anyone know of any light weight hood alternatives (other than seibon dry carbon)?

Slowmotion Motorsports is the last company I have seen to make hood and trunk bolt on skins, they said they were going to produce them when I talked to them but I haven't seen anything yet but I really want them.