oh, well nevermind. That just seems like a lot.

 

bump

 

I just read some articles on the subject and djh is exactly correct...when you add toluene to gasoline the effective octane of the toluene is about 100-102. The same is probably true for xylene so you might want to rethink your calculations.

 

I'm positive that in my are as well from talking to others around the country that the Gasoline industry has a SUMMER blend and a WINTER blend of gasoline. The SUMMER blend is a Better fuel, and the WINTER blend is Poor. I have noticed as well as others that all of a sudden our Evos are having knock issues within a 2 week period. All things being equal (which they are not) one could deduce that there is ainfact a corrolation to this Fuel Blend. The Temps are down(cooler) but I am certain that the Gasline Industry does impliment a Different BLENDING for the 2 seasons(Summer/Winter). My Tuner and I are discussing trying a mixture of Toulene/Xylene to see if that will induce a better overall performance map for our Evos. If anybody has any Informative research/experience about this issue get intouch with me. As we will be testing this out in the coming week. Thnx...

 

I would just like to know where to get it for a reasonable price in the seattle area.

 

I wondered how the octane rating of 101 was calculated for ethanol and methanol? E85 is obviously 85% ethanol and 15% unleaded gasoline with a combined octane rating closer to 105. Ethanol is rated at 129 RON and 102 MON so using the standard octane formula used in the U.S. (R+M)/2, this would be (129+102)/2=116 octane U.S.

(Methanol is roughly 123 RON and 103 MON (123+103)/2= 113 octane U.S.) Methonal creates more energy than ethanol but is harder to acquire in most areas. If you want a simple octane increase, ethanol is just as good.

On an average, most states run 10% ethanol (116 octane) in their gas.
93 octane is generally 90% of 91 octane unleaded gas(roughly) and 10% of 116 octane ethanol.

91 octane is 90% of 89 octane unleaded gas (roughly) and 10% of 116 octane ethanol.

Most people can run up to 20-30% ethanol mixture with the stock fuel system with very few issues, especially if they tune their car appropriately. I personally recommend no more than 20% for gas tank mixtures and 30% for alcohol injection mixtures of additional ethanol/methanol. Don't top off your gas tank and then just pour in a small amount of ethanol, its best to add the ethanol to a half tank and then top off the rest of the tank with more gas to aggitate the mixture so it won't seperate.

Adding 10% MORE ethanol to a pre-mixed batch of 90%/10% gas/ethanol blend would increase the octane level from 93 octane to just a hair under 96 octane. This would be a total of 80% of 91 octane unleaded gas with NO ETHANOLand 20% of ethanol.

If you happen to have a 10% ethanol mixture with your gas now (they'll be a sticker on your gas pump telling you how much ethanol is mixed in) and you want to increase it to 20% ethanol, simply add 1 pint(8 oz.) of ethanol for every gallon of pre-mixed gas you use.


According to Klean Strips MSDS data for their denatured alcohol (the stuff you can buy at Home Depot) it is roughly 45-50% ethanol and 45-50% methanol for the most part so it is close to 114 octane U.S. which could be used.

 

Thanks for all the info. Where is the best place to get cheap ethanol? has anyone had much success tuning with this type of mixture on EVOs?

 

I just updated my last post on what you can use locally. Denatured alcohol and methanol has been used with alcohol/water injection systems for years with great success. The problem with mixing TOO much more ethanol or methanol into the gas tank is because its more corrosive than gas and can cause swelling of rubber o-rings and seals. Thats why I suggest no more than 20% added to the fuel mix.

 

hey what about using lucas oil fuel treatment as a substitute for that mineral spirits and transmission oil? just a thought.... cause i use that stuff in my gas tanks. i use about five oz. per tank. i live in cali so i use 91 oct at cheveron. any recommendations as far as cali gas goes?

 

So it seems Toluene is the best option. I personally would like to use it as a buffer at the drag track or when I'm out for spirited driving. What's a good amout per full tank and half tank? I noticed people suggesting percentages, but what do I base those percentages off of, the total fuel in the car? So if the car is at 3/4's (roughly 9 gallons in the car), then I add 10% of toluene to that to get a 92 oct up to 94.2?

Thanks for this post, this is some great stuff!

 

I prefer xylene > toluene as it has a higher 'R+M/2' rating and it's easier to get my hands on. Toluene only seems to be available at a couple paint stores.

Where are people finding gallons of either for <$10?!?!

 

bump... what do u guys use as a lubricant? no one repsonded to my question about lucas oil or marvel mystery oil?

"hey what about using lucas oil fuel treatment as a substitute for that mineral spirits (cleaning agent) and transmission oil(lubricant)? just a thought.... cause i use that stuff in my gas tanks and it contains injector cleaners and upper cylinder lubericant. . i use about five oz. per tank and it does have a positive affect on gas milage. i live in cali so i use 91 oct at cheveron. any recommendations as far as cali gas goes?"

 

I read this post about the summer/winter blend. I have a friend that owns a few gas stations and he said that this is true; the reason is in the winter there are additives for cold startup. The idea is that the additives will help protect your engine after sitting in the cold all night. You would thing that this would only be used in the northern United States, however when the refineries add the cold start chemicals to their fuel they add it to all the fuel and don’t track what part of the country it goes to. They don’t make a separate batch for the northern states; it’s unfortunately all the same stuff. So if you live in Miami you are getting stuck with the same fuel as someone living in Philadelphia. The other problem is that he said that with this mix 93 octane is more like the 91 octane you would get in the summer time. This is the other reason the car seems to have less power in the winter time even though the air is colder and denser. The best thing you can do is buy Exxon, they don't add as much of the winter additive in an effort to save on the costs of the chemicals. Their fuel is around 92 octane vs. the 91 octane at other gas stations in the winter time. Hopefully this sheds a little light as to the method to their madness.

 

All blends have to meet the same R+M)/2 octane rating, even the winter blend. The reason you feel a lack of power isn't from octane, its from the overall lower energy of the winter blend fuel.

The added chemicals lower the energy density which is why you have the lack of power, if the octane rating was lower you'd have cars knocking alll over the place, possibly ruining engines and that would be a huge liability.

 

zylene,plus 3 teaspoons of alchol,the rest 93 octane an yea. you wont see knock for a few days also clean the entire fuel system nicely.