Balancing issue or something else?
Jan 29, 2012, 04:30 PM
#1
Balancing issue or something else?
--------------------------
I had new tires put on my car back in November and experienced the usually out of balance symptoms upon reaching 65-70mph. Just thinking no big deal and they probably goofed, I took it back to have it rebalanced.
Long story short, I've had the tires balanced 5 times (first four times were at Les Schwab) and the 5th was at Big O. Every time I took it at Les Schwab they said one or two of the tires were out of balance but they fixed it. Each time the severity was different. The fourth time was the best so far and not noticeable most of the time until you started going over 70 mph.
I drove it like that for a couple weeks before I was fed up and decided to take it somewhere else completely. I then took it to Big O at Orem on Saturday (yesterday) and it's the worst so far. Sometimes the steering wheel will shake at 45mph along with the pedals.
With that said, I have not had any of these issues before the new tires (which look good under inspection) and my wheels are not bent. This issue arose right after the new tires but I'm starting to think that something else is the problem? Perhaps a tie rod going bad? I am just over 90k miles now. I have noticed the steering is not as firm/crisp since I bought the car a year or two ago. I lifted the front of the car up and there feels like there's some play when you hold it at 9 and 3 at the tires.
The tie rod was probably on it's way out but for it to dramatically get worse and different results when balanced leaves me wondering. I know it's not the wheel hub because that feels solid when it's on stands and was replaced early last year.
What are your guys thoughts? I'm a bit at a lost and am tempted to take it to a local reputable shop (solid autoworks) to look at it because I don't feel like buying/installing new tie rods just to have the problem still exist. I'm a firm believer of avoiding the shotgun approach
----------------------------------------------------
UPDATE Feb 16th:I forget the name of the tool but we spun the rotors and used the measure tool and gauge to check for warping and they were WAY out of spec. Ordered new rotors (RotorPros from maperformance.com) that are slotted/dimples and getting new pads from solid autoworks (forget the brand but paul recommended them and said he actually first heard about them from ams). It's odd that it got so bad with new tires. I previously only had minor shake under heavy breaking.
UPDATE March 12th: So the new rotors fixed the vibration under accel and braking but there's still a vibration that comes on slowly while driving on the freeway. I can do a pull to 80mph without any vibration but if I keep that speed, the vibration slowly starts to settle in over a minute or so. I've also noticed that it usually starts within the car and then moves to the steering wheel. We did rotate the tires so I'm wondering if a problematic tire is now in the rear. I've even ordered hub centric rings since I noticed mine didn't have any when installing the rotors but those have not made a difference. It looks like I had two issues come up causing the vibration, one being the rotors and the second is still unknown! I'm wondering if one of my tires is out of round... would lowering/increasing the tire pressure help figure out if that's the cause?
This is so frustrating as I spent most of last year getting my car just the way I like it only to have this happen right after.
I had new tires put on my car back in November and experienced the usually out of balance symptoms upon reaching 65-70mph. Just thinking no big deal and they probably goofed, I took it back to have it rebalanced.
Long story short, I've had the tires balanced 5 times (first four times were at Les Schwab) and the 5th was at Big O. Every time I took it at Les Schwab they said one or two of the tires were out of balance but they fixed it. Each time the severity was different. The fourth time was the best so far and not noticeable most of the time until you started going over 70 mph.
I drove it like that for a couple weeks before I was fed up and decided to take it somewhere else completely. I then took it to Big O at Orem on Saturday (yesterday) and it's the worst so far. Sometimes the steering wheel will shake at 45mph along with the pedals.
With that said, I have not had any of these issues before the new tires (which look good under inspection) and my wheels are not bent. This issue arose right after the new tires but I'm starting to think that something else is the problem? Perhaps a tie rod going bad? I am just over 90k miles now. I have noticed the steering is not as firm/crisp since I bought the car a year or two ago. I lifted the front of the car up and there feels like there's some play when you hold it at 9 and 3 at the tires.
The tie rod was probably on it's way out but for it to dramatically get worse and different results when balanced leaves me wondering. I know it's not the wheel hub because that feels solid when it's on stands and was replaced early last year.
What are your guys thoughts? I'm a bit at a lost and am tempted to take it to a local reputable shop (solid autoworks) to look at it because I don't feel like buying/installing new tie rods just to have the problem still exist. I'm a firm believer of avoiding the shotgun approach
----------------------------------------------------
UPDATE Feb 16th:I forget the name of the tool but we spun the rotors and used the measure tool and gauge to check for warping and they were WAY out of spec. Ordered new rotors (RotorPros from maperformance.com) that are slotted/dimples and getting new pads from solid autoworks (forget the brand but paul recommended them and said he actually first heard about them from ams). It's odd that it got so bad with new tires. I previously only had minor shake under heavy breaking.
UPDATE March 12th: So the new rotors fixed the vibration under accel and braking but there's still a vibration that comes on slowly while driving on the freeway. I can do a pull to 80mph without any vibration but if I keep that speed, the vibration slowly starts to settle in over a minute or so. I've also noticed that it usually starts within the car and then moves to the steering wheel. We did rotate the tires so I'm wondering if a problematic tire is now in the rear. I've even ordered hub centric rings since I noticed mine didn't have any when installing the rotors but those have not made a difference. It looks like I had two issues come up causing the vibration, one being the rotors and the second is still unknown! I'm wondering if one of my tires is out of round... would lowering/increasing the tire pressure help figure out if that's the cause?
This is so frustrating as I spent most of last year getting my car just the way I like it only to have this happen right after.
Last edited by gypsy; Mar 12, 2012 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Update
Jan 29, 2012, 09:08 PM
#3
Not really likely. RRO is normally felt at lower speeds.
Does it get worse with speed past 70? If so, that is static imbalance. If it has a range of 60-65 (example) and you can drive though it, then it is force driven (R1H).
95% of the time, its poor balancer setup and maintenance.
If they are getting different balance readings every time they mount the wheel to the balance machine, then its a centering or calibration issue. Centering is making sure the wheel is centered on the spindle. Calibration means 0.50 oz is not repeating 0.50.
Go to a shop with a Hunter 9700 machine.
Have them run the balance machine in round off disabled. Balance the tire in dynamic to 0.15 on both flanges and 0.15 in static. And match or 2 toward 1 mount to get an assembly value of 15 Hunter RoadForce pounds.
Check bushings, tie roads, bearings, axles, rotors for hot spots, and steering components.
Does it get worse with speed past 70? If so, that is static imbalance. If it has a range of 60-65 (example) and you can drive though it, then it is force driven (R1H).
95% of the time, its poor balancer setup and maintenance.
If they are getting different balance readings every time they mount the wheel to the balance machine, then its a centering or calibration issue. Centering is making sure the wheel is centered on the spindle. Calibration means 0.50 oz is not repeating 0.50.
Go to a shop with a Hunter 9700 machine.
Have them run the balance machine in round off disabled. Balance the tire in dynamic to 0.15 on both flanges and 0.15 in static. And match or 2 toward 1 mount to get an assembly value of 15 Hunter RoadForce pounds.
Check bushings, tie roads, bearings, axles, rotors for hot spots, and steering components.
Jan 29, 2012, 09:22 PM
#4
Smike, thanks for the input - it's greatly appreciated.
It gets worse after 70 MPH and can't be driven through. I looked up their site and e-mailed a rep seeing if they knew of any shops that have a Hunter 9700 in my area. Are there any other good alignment machines that I could look for as well?
It gets worse after 70 MPH and can't be driven through. I looked up their site and e-mailed a rep seeing if they knew of any shops that have a Hunter 9700 in my area. Are there any other good alignment machines that I could look for as well?
Jan 31, 2012, 01:47 PM
#5
Normally its a single wheel causing the issue. Switch both fronts with both rears and see if the issue goes away. If it does move one fear at a time back to the front to identify the problem wheel. Once you have the problem wheel identified i suggest removing and remounting the tire 180* out from where it was then rebalance. This normal resolves the issues I have encountered.
Feb 1, 2012, 04:47 AM
#6
Smike, thanks for the input - it's greatly appreciated.
It gets worse after 70 MPH and can't be driven through. I looked up their site and e-mailed a rep seeing if they knew of any shops that have a Hunter 9700 in my area. Are there any other good alignment machines that I could look for as well?
It gets worse after 70 MPH and can't be driven through. I looked up their site and e-mailed a rep seeing if they knew of any shops that have a Hunter 9700 in my area. Are there any other good alignment machines that I could look for as well?
What you have is a static imbalance. Why? Gets worse with speed. Uneven distribution of mass that causes a single plane hop.
Make sure the shop is rear coning and using a finger/flange plate adapter. Have them do a centering check on every assembly as well and TURN OFF the SmartWeight feature on the machine. If they can turn off round off mode as well, they are looking for static numbers below 0.15 oz and dynamic below 0.15 oz.
Normally its a single wheel causing the issue. Switch both fronts with both rears and see if the issue goes away. If it does move one fear at a time back to the front to identify the problem wheel. Once you have the problem wheel identified i suggest removing and remounting the tire 180* out from where it was then rebalance. This normal resolves the issues I have encountered.
Once you've done the 180* (and if you know the road force locations of both spins - 1st and 2nd. You can do a 2 towards 1 spin of 90*. That will optimize the assembly as well as you can.
Feb 1, 2012, 11:31 AM
#7
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: TN
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findgsp9700.cfm
I've had good luck with shops that have Hunter equipment.
I've had good luck with shops that have Hunter equipment.
Trending Topics
Feb 2, 2012, 08:25 AM
#8
Thanks for all the input. I swapped out wheels with known good wheels/tires and the problem is still there. I had a passenger this time and he could feel it in the car. Also found a straight smooth road (roads are complete sh*t in utah) and noticed it's inconsistent with speed and kinda comes and goes but generally gets worse with speed and acceleration.
I checked my wheel hubs again and they're solid. I'm wondering if my CV axle is bad or not properly seated.
I checked my wheel hubs again and they're solid. I'm wondering if my CV axle is bad or not properly seated.
Mar 12, 2012, 11:07 AM
#9
BUMP:
So the new rotors fixed the vibration under accel and braking but there's still a vibration that comes on slowly while driving on the freeway. I can do a pull to 80mph without any vibration but if I keep that speed, the vibration slowly starts to settle in over a minute or so. I've also noticed that it usually starts within the car and then moves to the steering wheel. We did rotate the tires so I'm wondering if a problematic tire is now in the rear. I've even ordered hub centric rings since I noticed mine didn't have any when installing the rotors but those have not made a difference. It looks like I had two issues come up causing the vibration, one being the rotors and the second is still unknown! I'm wondering if one of my tires is out of round... would lowering/increasing the tire pressure help figure out if that's the cause?
This is so frustrating as I spent most of last year getting my car just the way I like it only to have this happen right after.
Also, I'm going to take Smike's great advice but with a different shop about checking the balancing since the rotors was part of the cause.
So the new rotors fixed the vibration under accel and braking but there's still a vibration that comes on slowly while driving on the freeway. I can do a pull to 80mph without any vibration but if I keep that speed, the vibration slowly starts to settle in over a minute or so. I've also noticed that it usually starts within the car and then moves to the steering wheel. We did rotate the tires so I'm wondering if a problematic tire is now in the rear. I've even ordered hub centric rings since I noticed mine didn't have any when installing the rotors but those have not made a difference. It looks like I had two issues come up causing the vibration, one being the rotors and the second is still unknown! I'm wondering if one of my tires is out of round... would lowering/increasing the tire pressure help figure out if that's the cause?
This is so frustrating as I spent most of last year getting my car just the way I like it only to have this happen right after.
Also, I'm going to take Smike's great advice but with a different shop about checking the balancing since the rotors was part of the cause.
Last edited by gypsy; Mar 12, 2012 at 11:11 AM.
Mar 12, 2012, 01:37 PM
#10
Sounds like you have phasing also. Where tires rotate to point where issue is amplified then set 180* out of phase (no issue) then back.
Off centering, force, or imbalance could still be on the table. You need to address the installation of the assemblies.
I would get all assemblies re-balanced. Checked for assembly force. And for sure centering rings. The Evo is hub centric. Not lug centric. You really need to be centered there.
Off centering, force, or imbalance could still be on the table. You need to address the installation of the assemblies.
I would get all assemblies re-balanced. Checked for assembly force. And for sure centering rings. The Evo is hub centric. Not lug centric. You really need to be centered there.
Mar 12, 2012, 02:46 PM
#11
Sounds like you have phasing also. Where tires rotate to point where issue is amplified then set 180* out of phase (no issue) then back.
Off centering, force, or imbalance could still be on the table. You need to address the installation of the assemblies.
I would get all assemblies re-balanced. Checked for assembly force. And for sure centering rings. The Evo is hub centric. Not lug centric. You really need to be centered there.
Off centering, force, or imbalance could still be on the table. You need to address the installation of the assemblies.
I would get all assemblies re-balanced. Checked for assembly force. And for sure centering rings. The Evo is hub centric. Not lug centric. You really need to be centered there.
Last edited by gypsy; Mar 13, 2012 at 07:03 AM.
Mar 13, 2012, 10:51 PM
#13
Thanks, Smike, I'll do as you have said. I was able to find a few shops nearby with a Hunter 9700 machine and will report back with my findings. It definitely feels like static imbalance with phasing like you described.
It sucks having to deal with issues but it's also a great learning experience!
It sucks having to deal with issues but it's also a great learning experience!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Allentotora
Evo X Tires / Wheels / Brakes / Suspension
5
Jun 5, 2017 12:20 PM
g7igo7
Evo X Tires / Wheels / Brakes / Suspension
12
May 11, 2016 08:33 AM
