I'm new, but I've noticed 2 odd things about the suspension, can someone let me know if it's the Evo or me? Stock Evo, Advans on.

1) fishtailing when accelerating from a stop and turning to the left. This has happened twice and since I've backed off a little it hasn't happened again. I think it's me.

2) I live in western PA and drive a lot of curves back and forth to work. (I bought the evo just for this). Speeds are 35 - 65 mostly. When I have forward weight transfer and try to turn, the back end always feels like its about to spin out. (it happened once on ice with snow tires, but that doesn't count) This will often happen while braking and turning in, but especially when I'm cresting a rise and turning in.

I had been driving a 95 accord prior to this, perhaps I'm used to more understeer. Maybe the car's going to set but it just makes me nervous.

If you have dirving tips, le tme know, I've been to the track for instructions, but its been a few years and it was the honda.

If anyone thinks a suspension mod would help, I'd love to hear it.

 

Don't worry, there's nothing wrong with the Evo. Both of these things are related and both are driver errors, so to speak.

If you're accelerating in a turn, you have less grip available to turn. Depending on how fast you enter the turn, how abruptly you get onto the throttle, and how you unwind the wheel you will have slip at either the front or rear wheel. The Evo behaves like a RWD car if you jump in the throttle in a turn...the back will step out. When you instinctively lift off the throttle, the problem will get worse (paradoxically). The trick is to push down on the throttle slower and smoother, then bleed in more throttle only when you're past your apex and starting to unwind the wheel.

As for problem #2, that's always a problem in any car. If you're braking, you must be in a straight line. Turning under braking will unload the rear dramatically. Unless you do it on purpose (i.e., trail braking) it can be really scary. Generally speaking, oversteer secondary to trail braking or trailing throttle is harder to catch than power oversteer (like what you're describing in problem #1).

HTH,

Emre

 

Hey Thanks,
I think you're right about both, I have noticed that when I feel situation 2 and I have the presence of mind to increase the throttle, it certainly grips better - but scary. It probably has a bit to do with taking turns faster in the Evo - you get closer to threshold that much faster. appreciate it!

 

Both instances are due to driver not the car. Depending on what you are doing and what you want to accomplish, you may try and do some of the above things on purpose.

I'd suggest you invest $300 on a track driving school with your local car club in the spring. Until then, I'd highly recommend that you watch out for the mid-corner off-loaded suspension turbo torque peak (will behave like RWD) and constrain yourself to braking in a straight line until you know how and when to use trail braking and lift throttle oversteer (and one driving school will not be enough to teach you all that but at least you will know what it is for and be able to predict what the car will do).

 

It also depends on how agressive you are being....first thing to do is check for the shipping blocks (rubber blocks) in the springs. If they are in place remove them ASAP!

Otherwise, I agree 100% with what has been said by the others Especially the driving school! 95% of the people on this board can't drive the car anywhere near the stock limits... but you see them dropping $1000's on suspension mods instead of on training! I will never understand this

Keith

 

You are driving the car all wrong.... Also, if you drove an Accord before the EVO, you are prolly going faster than hell and don't even know it
The EVO is actually such a good handling car that it makes up for all kinds of driver ineptitude. If you are having problems now, you'll have lots more if you go dicking with the EVO suspension. Just take it easy and as others said, take a driving course.

 

Amen to that!

I've mentioned this before, but at a track event at Lime Rock Park last summer, I consistenly passed an Evo 8 with my 1991 E30 318is in every session. This was in an intermediate group, so it's not like he was a novice.

I wasn't even getting the full 136 hp out of my engine since not only was it down on power following serious head damage, but the bearings were bad on my tranny so it kept popping out of gear at 5000 rpm (redline was 7500). I doubt I was making more than 110-120 hp tops.

All that hp won't help you one bit if you can't maintain your momentum through the turns.

Emre

 

Could be the fact he's in Pittsburgh and still on the stock tires.

 

I thought when you give it more gas in a corner your giving more torque to the wheels thus=more grip??

 

That's the exact opposite of what happens. It just not physically possible to gain grip by accelerating in a corner. Again, it has to do with something called the friction circle.

In short: a tire has a certain amount of grip. That grip is the same no matter what direction you try to move the tire. In other words, it takes just as much force to push the tire sideways as it does to push it forwards/backwards (assuming the tire is not rolling, of course).

You can't get more than 100% of the grip available to the tire at any given time. That means, if you are using 95% of the tire's grip to accelerate the car, you only have 5% left to turn it. Similarly, if you are using 95% of the available grip to corner, you only have 5% left to accelerate or decelerate the car. That's why hammering the throttle mid-corner will generally make the car understeer. That extra accelerative force you apply exceeds 100% of available grip and the front wheels start to slip.

This is why AWD cars will almost always understeer more than a well set-up RWD car. Of course, in cars like the Evo, that front wheel slippage will cause torque to be shifted to the rear so things get a little more complicated. But the basics remain the same. You have 100% of grip to use in any direction; therefore you will always have less grip available if you simultaneously accelerate/decelerate while turning. This is one of the most basic concepts in high performance driving.

Emre

 

Nice job Kayaalp, you know of what you speak (how refreshing)

 

Thanks very much for the kind words! I've been studying and practicing high performance driving for several years. I've been running in advanced groups and solo for a while now with the PCA, BMW CCA, BMW CC, SOCCI, COMSCC, etc. I'll be instructing with the BMW CC next season. I take this stuff pretty seriously...even if it is a lot of fun!

[side note] Man, I love my Evo. I can't wait to shake this thing down on the track next summer [/side note]

Emre

 

If you want to reduce this behavior, lower the tire pressures in the rear tires. What tire pressures are you running front and rear? I also agree it is more driver related than car related.

 

BINGO! I am sure the temps are below 40 most of the time in PA this time of the year. The Advans are a Summer Only rated tire.

By "Summer Only", Yokohama means, "tires are as hard as and as grippy as hocky pucks in the cold and you should not use them unless it is above 40degrees".

Switch to proper tires, and formulate a new opinion regarding the cars handling.

SC~

 

65 alpine where in PA are u??