in the pacific northwest:

since real performance driving will be out of the question during the winter, I am wondering if a narrow wheel / tire combo might not be a good idea. cheap, light, and good traction. As long as the offset is right should be ok?
Then when the weather improves, mount the regular wheels.

what do you think?

thanks
(Looking at a new evo later today)

 

Narrow tires are better for deep powder. But for ice or hard-pack, wide is still better. Studs are better for hard-pack or ice, but not so good on dry pavement.

You need to consider the range of conditions you have to cope with, over the winter.

Another thing to consider is that narrower tires tend to have lower load ratings, and winter tires have lower speed ratings.

You should try to keep your overall diameter the same. Since winter tires have larger tread blocks, just using the stock size doesn't always mean the same outer diameter.

In the Northeast, we often get a couple of months of dry or wet weather too cold for the Advans before the real snows begin. Then we get a mix of powder, hard-pack, ice, or sand covered pavement.

For those conditions, I went with VR rated "extended load" Nokian WR "all season" winter tires in 225/45-17s on ASA KA3 17x7.5 rims. This gives me narrower tread for powder, with enough width for hard-pack or sand covered pavement, with sufficient load/speed rating for freeway use.

If I had it to do again, I might have opted for the Enkei RS-6 rims in 17x7, as they look better than the KA3s (and might not stick out so far).

If you are facing a lot of heavy powder, you might want to look at TRs optional 205/50-17 WS-50s, although I don't know if TR carries the RS6 rims. (The package used the KA3s, before TR ran out of them.)

 

A narrower tire will cut through snow and ice better than a wider tire. There is less material to evacuate from the front of a narrower tire making it easier for the car to drive. With a narrower tire, you will lose some steering response and dry weather handling.

If minus sizing, you want to make sure the tire has enough load capacity and the correct overall diameter. We have found a 215/50-17 is best minus size.

There isn't a whole lot available this time of year. I would recommend picking something up soon if you really need them.

 

I don't know about Indiana, but in Massachusetts, the ice gets hard enough that a 3250 lb EVO wouldn't cut through it if you were wearing locomotive wheels.

For fresh fall "powder", it's better to cut through the snow, gripping the road beneath than to ride up onto the loose surface, with the snow grains acting like ball bearings between your tires and the road.

But where the snow has compressed into "hard pack" or ice, you're going to be riding up on top of it, anyway. But that kind of surface doesn't shift around like loose powder, so that's not so bad, so long as your tires can grip the compressed snow/ice layer.

There really isn't a "set" answer to winter tires, as the road conditions are different in different weather regions, on urban versus rural roads, and even from week to week over the winter.

Each owner has to evaluate the specific conditions that prevail over the winter on the specific routes that he(she) will be encountering.

That's why the answer from Massachusetts might not fit the requirements of a driver in the Pac Northwest.

 

So I need 4 different sets of snows to account for week-to-week changes.

Neal knows what he's talking about. I think you're looking too deep at this DGS....

Speaking of which, Neal, I just ordered a snow tire/wheel package from TR, and it would have been nice to have the narrower size offered up as an option for the Evo snow package - just a suggestion for the TR website.

 

Do rally teams take one set of tires to a winter rally?

Winter tires are a compromise to cover more than one type of road condition. Winter roads, at different times, can see deep snow, hard packed snow, black ice, or wet sand over pavement.

If you live in a rural area, you're likely to see more powder than ice, while in an urban environment, it may be the reverse.

This isn't entirely unique to winter tires. Drivers in Florida need more wet handling in summer tires than someone who lives in the desert.

Not everyone has to have the same "right" answer.

But perhaps he despairs of trying to explain a complex subject to people who demand simple answers.

 

You're kidding, right? Like everyone has a manufacturer's sponsorship and multi-million dollar budget....



Absolutely, but that illustration doesn't begin to relate to your nitpicking on snow types. My driving environment includes rural and urban environments in PA, NY, MA, NJ. No one environment has a lock on ice or hard pack or granular. Enough of this nonsense - I'll now join you.

 

That's just the point. If we had big budgets and travelling service crews, we would have (at least) "4 different sets of snows to account for week-to-week changes" -- or even trip by trip changes.

Heck, if we had the "Mach 5", like Speed Racer, we'd have push buttons on the steering wheel to change tires. (Silly? It wasn't all that long ago that having a dash control for headlight height was considered "silly". How silly is a control to adjust the center diff balance?)

But drivers on more limited street budgets have to compromise. Most cars have to settle for one set of "all season" tires they run all year. Separate winter and summer packages are just one step closer to the "unrealistic" ideal.

Unrealistic ideals are not an unfamiliar concept to engineers. Materials engineers talk of the "Unobtainium series" on the periodic table: Strongium, Lightium, Cheapium, ... Electrical engineers speak of "ideal wire" (zero ohms per meter). The engineer in me has been taught not to forget the ideal while dealing with the compromise. "Looking too deep" is part of the profession.

But hey, there are lots of different snow tires out there, and a whole Internet of reports about them. Plunging deep into a topic isn't proprietary to engineers.

Yes, most climates get multiple snow types. But different climates get them in different proportions.

Of course, once you've chosen your winter package, you don't really care about this stuff anymore. What's on the car is what you have.

 

We didnt find that the narrower KA3 was an option until 3/4 way through the season. Things take a couple of weeks to put on the site, and by that time they were all sold out. Expect to see them next year a bit earlier

 

I try to give advice on specific items best I can when given the individuals driving conditions. When it comes to a "what's best" scenario, its hard to hit every nail on the head. So instead I provide an answer based on the average conditions of most individuals. There really isn't any stupid questions or wrong answers. Everyone experiences different conditions and prefers different things.