Unless you have friends in Toyko

 

Ok so we are in mid-April now, any word on if we can get the MR bilsteins?

I didn't have too much luck with bilstein USA.

Steve

 

why wouldnt you just Tein Coilovers LOL. Dont understand paying a arm and a leg for the suspesion setup on the MR. Especially when its not fully adjustable. I guess its just because its the MR. It could have OBX rice shocks and people would want it just because its on the MR.

 

I don't want bouncy tein gazillion pound springs coilovers on my car .... If I wanted to bounce to the moon, I would get a pogo stick!

I want nice compliant good low speed rebound control, mild high speed compression which the bilsteins should have.

That's the whole reason that they are on the MR.

It shouldn't be too expensive, well I hope it won't be....

 

JIC , TEIN , HKS , Tanabe and your intrested in MR shocks LOL. You must not track your car then. YOu must want edelbrock shocks then LOL.

 

Hey you can't go building an MR out of it's good parts before the MR even shows up.. hehe. Actually it would be a good sign if more info could be dug up on part numbers for these dampers from anyone in the parts department in Europe or Asia/Australia.

 

Yeah and you must put a million stickers on your car and orders japanese coilovers because they have purple colored springs...

-First of all I didn't start any patronizing.. you did.

-You assume too much, and really have no idea what you're talking about...

-I have done track events on pretty much all major tracks in the state of california and I know alot of pro drivers. I've done alot of autox too, and alot of karting (non-shifters)

-I also used to ride hondas, suzukis, and knew alot of suspension tuners for bikes specializing in showa, ohlins and penske

-I actually have a good friend with a fast civic that actually does use teins

-Bilsteins are some of the best shocks and widely used by racers, especially alot of the BMW club racers, which I know alot of.

-I would rather use bilstein, moton, ohlins, koni or penske before I even touched a japanese coilover and that's if I wanted to go coilover. I would also want separate control of rebound and compression.

-Finally I personally think that the MR bilstein set won't cost as much as you think, they might be as cheap as $300-500 a set, that's way better than paying $1500-2000 for bouncy japanese coilovers.

Steve

 

Actually on Adam's site, the spring rates for the Bilsteins are 12kg/mm front and 9kg/mm rear. They also happen to be the exact same spring rates found on the Tein RAs.

Besides, the Ralliart's are WAY overpriced. I've used a Zeal S6 setup before with 8kg/mm front and 7kg/mm rear from Bulletproof and they were insanely good for street and track. The Zeals are cheaper too @ $2500 or so. Right now I'm on HKS Hipermax Damper II's and they feel as good as the Zeal's but whole LOT cheaper

My point....don't get the Ralliart/Bilstein's. Waste of money. Go for either the Zeal's or HKS's. And if you could get a good deal, go for the Ohlins Flag - L's

 

I never said I wanted Ralliart Bilstein, it seems that japanese coilovers love high spring rates, what's up with that.?!

Could it be the silky smooth roads that they have in Japan? GEE LEMME THINK...

Come on guys get a clue...

Personally i'm more interested in the shock then the springs... I mean look at the stock rates... they don't look too stiff... so why does the car feel so stiff? could it be the shocks... bingo!

 

You cannot compare spring rates of any coilover to any other coilover or even to the stock suspension.

The only valid comparison is how, for example, a set of Brand X coilovers (makes no difference what brand) behaved with 8 kg front and rear, vs how it behaved with, say, 8 kg front, 7 kg rear, or 10 kg front, 8 kg rear.

Comparing one brands coilovers spring rates vs another, when each has a different piston diameter, different piston position (inverted or standard), different number of pistons (single vs mono tube), different means of height adjustment (single vs dual height adjustment), and different means of stroke and rebound adjustments, the comparisons go completely out the window and you are literally comparing apples to oranges.

The spring rates each firm chooses are directly related to all of the above criterion, and then some. However, all the firms use standardized spring diameters allowing the user to choose from a variety of different rates to suit their particular needs.

At a certain point, when you deviate from the manufacturer supplied spring rates, shock revalving comes into play as well and they must be revalved to suit the new rates. Going up or down 1 kg for any given coilover tends not to upset the valving, and on some (again depending on construction) going up or down 2 kg.mm can be done. Byond that, and revalving to suit the desired spring rate is recommended.

I should have the std MR Bilstein prices by Monday,a nd will post the pricing and lead times for the individual components and the full setup (ie std MR struts and springs) on our site

You won't see Bilstein USA carrying these, or having any clue what you are asking for if you give them a part number - been there done that for years now on Subaru's, and I ahve found the only place to get these is Asia.

 

I wonder how much of a difference will be felt performance wise with the Bilsteins?

I don't really care too much about the daily driving, that I can totally live with.

 

The daily driving is suppposed to be improved as well as the performance..

 

While you put you make your point very basic, you do forget one fundamental point, springs hold up the car and shocks transform kinetic energy of the spring oscillations into heat.

Most racers start setting up cars with springs/swaybars first, and then they run the car at the track with telemetry to observe shock piston speeds and movement to determine valving.

Some tuners choose big spring rates/small swaybars, some choose small spring rates/ large swaybars. Of course alot of these
choices depend on the chassis and balance of the car.

Quote:

Comparing one brands coilovers spring rates vs another, when each has a different piston diameter, different piston position (inverted or standard), different number of pistons (single vs mono tube), different means of height adjustment (single vs dual height adjustment), and different means of stroke and rebound adjustments, the comparisons go completely out the window and you are literally comparing apples to oranges.

Shocks control the oscillation of the spring, sure there are different constructions but it is not as important as the final force curve of the shock, the amount of heat it can dissipate and also the type of valving (linear, progressive, diggressive).
How a shock is made, pretty much tells you how efficient it will do it's job, it will still do what it's meant to do.

Quote:

The spring rates each firm chooses are directly related to all of the above criterion, and then some. However, all the firms use standardized spring diameters allowing the user to choose from a variety of different rates to suit their particular needs.

NO NO NO, spring rates are not chosen based on what shocks will be used, they are chosen to what aftermarket suspension companies decide through simulations, what will make the car handle better, remember that shocks are only there to dampen the springs.

Quote:

At a certain point, when you deviate from the manufacturer supplied spring rates, shock revalving comes into play as well and they must be revalved to suit the new rates. Going up or down 1 kg for any given coilover tends not to upset the valving, and on some (again depending on construction) going up or down 2 kg.mm can be done. Byond that, and revalving to suit the desired spring rate is recommended.

Depending on what spring rates you choose, most of these coilovers have a valving range already built in, based on the shim stacks and valving nature chosen.
If a coilover has a standard 500# spring, usually it has a range let's say 300-700# where you can choose other springs in this range and the shock will still work well.

Of course the optimal setting is to revalve, in order to be precise.

Quote:

I should have the std MR Bilstein prices by Monday,a nd will post the pricing and lead times for the individual components and the full setup (ie std MR struts and springs) on our site

You won't see Bilstein USA carrying these, or having any clue what you are asking for if you give them a part number - been there done that for years now on Subaru's, and I ahve found the only place to get these is Asia.

Well that's good news! It will be interesting to know if the MR uses different spring rates than the US EVO 8, since the MR is lighter than our car and different weight distribution.

Please keep up posted...

Thx

Steve

 

I think we are largely saying the same thing Steve, though I would disagree with this:

The selection of spring rate is most definately tied to the dimensions of the car and the intended usage, as well as the dampener settings for any given application - that's what I was trying to say.

 

Well you just said it better... so I'm cool with it.

Adam, I'm sure we can get alot of people on board for a group buy if you can get pricing on the MR bilsteins...

Let's hope the set of 4 will be under $800. Is there a way that you can find out the spring rates for the MR?

Thx,

Steve