deanob

iTrader: (2)

Just swapped out my non RF speakers to some decent Pioneer 3 ways. 220wat max 35wat RMS and that alone was a world of difference! Sound quality and loudness is way better now.

Easy to do... just remove the old paper 2 way speakers, cut out the paper. Saw off the amp with a hack saw blade held in your hand (real easy, plastic is holding it in). Place new speaker in the oem enclosure you just made. Find some mounting points with solid plastic behind it. Drill some pilot holes and screw firmly. Solder in - and + utilizing oem harness and done.
Took about 20 mins per door and the effort was well worth it! The OEM speakers are kinda pathetic.

Anyway if you guys really want I can make a DIY guide on it with more pics... heres one of the speakers installed using the harness still and everything!

FJF

iTrader: (18)

Pioneer claims 91dB sensitivity. Even at 1w/1m it's not outrageously high. Are the speakers really louder than stock at the same volume setting?

deanob

iTrader: (2)

I'm not exactly sure about the loudness I think I meant quality rather... but the OEM speakers are pretty pathetic regardless.

Jumperalex

deanob, so you have the non-RF (ie basic) sound system in your car? And you upgraded the speakers? And you were, and still are, happy with the improvements?

I used to mess about with car audio but I just have no desire to go mucking about with non-factory fit and function at this point. I just want a little bit better sound. I'm really quite saddened at how this 2010 basic system is worse than the 2003 VIII basic system. I guess in essence that is all I'm looking for right now, to at least get up to what I had with the 2003 VIII. Maybe some day later I'll pull out my amps and subs from storage and do something with them but for now, with only 50 miles on the car, I'm just looking to make a small step up in quality.

lancer0220

iTrader: (6)

i had a diff lancer with out the RF package and i changed the stock speakers out with regular blapunkt components and blaupunkt speakers in the rear and that alone made a huge difference. the blaupunkt speakers i bought werent even top of the line all 4 speakers and 2 tweeters and 2 crossovers only cost me $95 shipped (about 2 years ago from sonicelectronix)

Jumperalex

Really!? Well that is nice to hear. Now of course the question becomes just how much speaker is worth buying since I am fully aware that the stock non-RF HU isn't really all that good. I'm not so concerned with future proofing since any future work I do will involve a sub and the elimination of most bass from the four mains.

Hmmm well OK that is one vote. anyone else only upgrade their speaks on their non-RF system?

FJF

iTrader: (18)

You won't hear quality if the system isn't loud enough to be heard over the noise floor. Add the random cancellation/reinforcement and there isn't much (sonic) information to reach the ears which doesn't strongly emphasize one side of the spectrum while turning the other into the aural equivalent of mud. This is said under the assumption that the car is on the move. Not standing still, moving.

I'd like to hear the stock X speakers in sealed/deadened doors with a good front end. Frankly, given the constraints of the environment, the speakers that offer the better SQ in the CT9A with the least drawbacks are the stockers. This is due, in large part, to their sensitivity which the stock X speakers also posses. Just as the stockers in the CR9A sound nothing like they do when the car is delivered, that is after creating a proper alignment and feeding the transducers with a significantly superior source, there's probably hope for the X stockers if they're installed and configured in an intelligent manner. There's a whole lot more to audio than bolting speaking into doors.

None of this will become evident, unless one takes the time to do the above and to listen. Those who did the same with the previous generation are happy with their systems using the stock speakers. FWIW, quite a few of those same individual reconfigured their systems for the stokers after trying a number of aftermarket alternatives, myself included.

All this being said, the stock X speakers could be absolutely horrible, even though I heard some promise in the system. No way to know aside from comparing apples to apples. FWIW, the rule of thumb in serious audio is that speakers come last. If the musical information isn't retrieved from the get-go, it'll never come out of the speakers. We're getting in a slightly different realm of audio quality and the accompanying expetations, but this property never changes.

Jumperalex

Yeah the key here is expectation management. I am not looking for leaps and bounds, just something at least as good as my stock VIII. I had a decent set of amps and JL audio subs in a custom box in my old Talon that I never used in the VIII because it was "good enough" for the level of effort I was willing to put in. I can say, without hesitation, that the X basic sound is pathetic and not even close to the level of my VIII.

My initial thought was to just add a sub, albeit even with a line-level converter because even that sounds better than stock no matter what anyone says about converters. But I'm hoping to avoid taking up trunk space. And well, it is winter and I don't have a garage so I'm not itching right now to spend too much time working up custom box solutions and wiring. A Wicked CAS box isn't an option because they don't make a box for my subs. Oh yeah and no way is it worth $350.

Soooo where does that leave me ... besides a good thread jack ;-) ... looking for high-sensitivity (because you are right I need as much sound to get over road noise as possible) coax and components to replace the stock speakers.

But if the stock head unit is SO bad that the high volume distortion I'm hearing is from the HU and not the speakers then maybe I'm just screwed. Though of course if I can get something with enough sensitivity so that I don't have to crank the volume as high then it might help with the source distortion.

and there you have my lunch time rambling before I head out to do some ecu logging :O

FJF

iTrader: (18)

Subs can be tough. Just as with speakers, we have a sensitivity issue. That same sensitivity has to be prorated for distance. Then, there's the actual frequency response that can be supported by the car, itself, relative to noise, distortion, and current draw. We do have options, said under the assumption that one wants to work with the car and not against it.

First thing, as mentioned, sensitivity. Second, believe it or not, is limiting the sub's extension. I know this seems counter-intuitive, as a sub's mission is to extend as low as it can. You see, this car makes a great deal of noise on its own. Then there's road noise, tire noise, exhaust noise, intake noise..... The bulk of the noise component manifests itself in the lower registers. Audio-wise, it either reinforces and cancels out the lower frequencies depending on a myriad of factors. If we roll-off the bass with a steep slope at ~45Hz, bass will sound much better defined, a lot more clear and articulate, yet still projecting the illusion of much deeper frequency response on a psychoacoutic level.


Now comes the bad news. Unless you're willing to go custom, there really isn't a commercially available speaker system that can come close to the stockers' sensitivity. At least not one that I've been exposed to. There are raw drivers that can work quite well, but we're talking about a different level of complexity.

The best thing one can do to improve the sound of any automotive speaker is to seal and deaden the doors.

If the stock HU blows, there isn't much that can be done to better the audio quality. Quantity, yes. Quality, no, unless you're willing to upgrade the deck.

If you come across a truly sensitive speaker, do me a favor and shoot me a PM. Really.

Jumperalex

See now we might be running into a classic case of expectation management

I hear you on the sensitivity issue. It isn't the first time I've heard that said. I guess the question still comes down to, what is causing the high volume distortion: Dirty signal or out of control cone? If it is a dirty signal then you are right, I have to consider ways to get a cleaner signal. But if it is a matter of the crappy speakers distorting then new speakers will help. They still can't make sound that isn't there, but if they can at least faithfully represent the signal they are given then that is a start.

Sub woofer setups: I hear ya. I'm not too concerned with my ability to set up a sub to my satisfaction. That last part is very important ... I'm very easy to satisfy ;-) ... I'm not looking for a competition quality system. For sub sensitivity there is of course gain control. For extension there is box design and equalization. Both of which I can deal with and are the least of my personal concerns. Size and weight are my concerns.

So all that said, this is why I'm hoping to get some comments from people who have actually tried it to get their thoughts. Since they are also likely the ones with my level of expectation. Anyone who's first step was a new head unit, amps, and custom sub is already beyond my CURRENT expectation level. I say current because that is exactly what I had in my Talon and I loved it. But that was when I was 25, I'm now 38 ... I don't care so much now ;-)

PS: of course at 25 I was willing to do the work myself, at 38 I can afford to let someone else do it for me :O haha

FJF

iTrader: (18)

I'm willing to bet it's the deck, but there's only one way to find out.

To clarify, I'm not talking about a completion-level system. I'm talking about being able to hear music clearly when the car is at speed and having some semblance of a defined low end without literally tearing the car apart. A gain control doesn't increase the sensitivity of the driver, but its use as described can increase distortion exponentially, and needlessly draw more current from the electrical system. Box design is a given, and EQ can be a moot point depending on application. For example, feeding a node does nothing expect for wasting power and tapping the electrical system. Assuming the extension can be supported, and it is not, once again we throw a lot more power into the driver creating a whole lot of distortion to no real benefit, whatsoever.

Size and weight aren't a problem, again, depending on one's expectations and the (aural) capability of the install. In my own Evo, I tested 14 drivers and 5 enclosures in various permutations, each with dedicated tuning. All the drivers were modeled beforehand and picked for a reason. You know what I settled on? A 6lb woofer/box combo under the driver's seat. It really isn't fair to compare a hatch like the Eclipse to an Evo. I've been involved with audio for 30+ years and I've never come across and environment as challenging as this. In stock form, the car is kinda workable. Mildly modded, it's a whole 'nother ball game.

Best of luck. I hope the system works out to your satisfaction.

Jumperalex

hmmmm 6lb under seat ... now you're talking my language Did you happen to post a thread you can link me to? Or care to elaborate here?

Oh and I was talking about the gain control as a way correctly balance the the sub level so as not to overpower everything else.

FJF

iTrader: (18)

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ot-system.html

I can't recall if I mentioned the final system config in the thread:

Alpine 105 deck (changer in trunk)
US Acoustics (Zed-built) USA4050 amplifier under the passenger seat
Stock speakers in sealed/deadened doors (front only)
Earthquake sub under driver's seat, as described in the thread.

Fair enough.

Jumperalex

wow I didn't think a box that size could fit under the seat. Given the 0.3cuft volume specs of my 8" JL Audio (old school 8W1 if I recall) I might be able to use it though it isn't ideal. And I can make a box like that myself.

hmmm of course I'm still left with the very unenviable position then of getting a usable line-level signal out of the stock HU to push my sub. and if I'm really motivated pull my 4ch amp out of storage too and drive the main speakers as well. still, using the stock HU has its limitations. But I have to think once it isn't being asked to push so hard that it will be a little better. [sigh] right up until I get annoyed with the almost inevitable ground-loop tail chasing game. ;-) But going away from stock appearance is something I'm trying to avoid. Though I understand that functions like BT and steering controls can be maintained with adapters right?

FJF

iTrader: (18)

I really don't know; I'm just an audio guy.