Stock frame turbo options these days?
 

What are our options these days for a good reliable stock frame turbo upgrade? I'd rather not have to send out my stock turbo to be upgraded, but if that's the only option then so be it. Looking to make over 400, even up to 450 on 91 pump. I see bad reviews on the Garretts and not even sure if the BBX is being produced any longer, or if FP is still in the game and their quality is what it used to be. I'd rather have BB over JB if possible. So what's out there these days?
Thanks guys!

Fp Black should work. I'm making 425 on pump gas at the wheels with bolt ons and stock cams. A little late spoiling dependibg what you want to do with it but great for a daily because you stay out of boost more then an early spoiling turbo.

Thought about FP Black, but I've been reading threads lately regarding insufficient crank case ventilation problems and oil seals crapping out. Also read that FP isn't making stock frame bolt on replacement turbos any longer and that the quality of their products isn't what is used to be.
IDK how true any of this is.

What do you hear bad about Garretts? They are near bulletproof. The problem is people improperly size them for their application and they can surge when boost control is not tuned properly. For your power level a GTX3071 would be near perfect. If you want more you can go with the 3576. I recommend staying away from the 3076. It doesn't have enough compressor for the turbine size and doesn't perform well on these cars.

Thanks for the info. Any other suggestions?

You could hit 400whp on pump gas with a MHI-18K on pump gas with bolt-ons and some cams. Perfect street turbo in my opinion.

and I have on bnib ported option for sale.. I just built my engine and I want a more aggressive setup.. stupid on my part but whatevs hmu if you decide on getting a 18k

So do you really think the stock frame GTX3071R can get me up to 450WHP on CA 91 octane? Or should I just go for the bigger GTX3576R?
This is a stock block, cams, head & IM motor. I do have most other supporting mods though as listed in my sig.

get a 3576R if you want that kind of power on pump fuel.

3071 would probably need E85 for help.

dunno where you heard garrett turbo are bad??

Just reading old threads I hear some people say the Garrett turbos aren't very good and others really like them on the EVO X. I'm willing to give them a shot.

Your title asks for stock frame turbo options. While the Garrett series can be mated to the stock manifold and down pipe per the ATP kit, it still is not a stock frame turbo. They come as a kit and are more expensive than a aftermarket stock frame turbo that gets bolted in. To me the ATP kits are an in between solution, between T3 and stock frame. You can make more power than with a stock frame. IMO stay stock frame on a stock motor and get a T3 or EFR kit on a built motor. A GTX35 on pump 91 @ 25 psi does not sound ideal in my opinion.
Stock frame turbos: FP are all BB now, BBX are all BB now, I have a MAP EF4 making over your number getting 20 psi at 4200 rpm at 7000 feet. EF3 might get you there too. Any of those larger stock frames would benefit from an upgraded or ported manifold. If you insist on BB, I would suggest BBX full, but I also really like my EF4

CBRD BBX's are no longer available. However Blouch is coming out with some new(er) turbos that are pretty close. ;)

My mistake. I guess I shouldn't have said stock frame turbo. Stock replacement turbo would have been more accurate, as in a turbo that will bolt to the stock exhaust manifold and downpipe. Thanks for your suggestions!

They are already available-

basically the bbx lite and full


I only typically recommend ball bearing in the stock housing- for best reliability!

we also have our new RB-X kits utilizing EFR turbos on our website- (of which we have already sold 10 kits in less than a month- so they are really taking off)

cb

Which Blouch is equivalent to the BBX full? And will this turbo fit the bill for me?

I dont want to respond on their behalf- however I would suggest that the Dominator 3 appears to the be the closest but it has a SLIGHTLY larger inducer on the compressor to my understanding-

you would be best to email sales@blouchturbo.com so that Mike or Bob can answer that for you!

Cheers

cb

FP is an excellent, high quality option. People that have issues don't adequately vent the crank case. Their is stickied thread in 8/9 engine section about. Oil seals don't crap out. Mine leaked, I increased crank case ventilation, and it stopped leaking all on its own.

How exactly to you increase crank case ventilation?

I would pick cbrd over blouch any day, just my opinion. They have been active with the evos for a long time. Their manifolds And intercoolers are beautiful. I don't know anybody with an Evo x that runs a blouch dominator turbo. People on the x run: cbrd, FP or MAP for stock frame options: FP red, ef3 or BBX full. Next size up are ef4 or FP black.
If you need more power, build your block and get t3 kit or EFR kit.
Check others setup, no need to reinvent the wheel. I would be shocked to learn that blouch owns more than 1% of the Evo x aftermarket stock frame turbo market. Good luck

Vent your crankcase via a breather valve or a nice catch can setup, which incorporates a breather

Oh the irony in this statement. ;)

STM makes custom larger fittings to go into the X valve cover, if you have aluminum cover, you can do two -10an fittings, the plastic covers gets a -10an and a -6an.

Thanks guys! Lots of great info here. I appreciate all the input. More is always welcome!

So I see the STM one is open to the atmosphere and uses a breather filter. Is this a better system for relieving excessive crank case pressure, opposed to the Radium Engineering closed-style unit?

Any input on the catch can questions in my previous post?

As far as the turbo goes: FP red, EF3, GTX3071R. Suggestions?

If he is serious is someone going to tell him?

Glad to learn something new, enlighten us. I just don't see people with Dom 2, 3 or 4. When we had a limited array of turbo options right after the X release, I saw people using the Garrett 3071/76
And dom2. As soon as FP and CBRD released their turbos, I stopped hearing about blouch. I understand taking a stock turbo and stuffing it with bigger and better wheels is what it is and maybe the differences are minor, but I just don't see any Blouch turbos on X's.
im not sure what the irony comment is supposed to mean?

I'm curious as well

Just to add to this, I guess AMS is getting close to releasing something in the next few months they are calling the STM 500 package and maybe even a 600. A Garrett variant I'm sure.

Blouch made CBRD turbos so you saying you don't see Blouch turbos on Evo 10's and that they aren't proven, is ironic.

Ok thank you. That makes sense. Now could you elaborate? When you say made the cbrd turbos, what does that mean? The housing is from Mitsubishi, so blouch r&d and made the wheels, that are added by cbrd? When you say made, could you be more detailed? When did they make what for cbrd? Was this before cbrd made the ball bearing version? Was this on the Evo 8-9 platform? I'm not doubting you, but would like to know all the facts. Just wondering why people buy cbrd and not doms if they are "both made" by blouch.

Also I don't remember saying they are unproven. I said they offered their turbos for the x before cbrd and FP, but after FP and cbrd entered the x game they became mostly irrelevant.

Blouch was the manufacturing arm for all CBRD BBX/BBK turbos, made to Chad's specs.

I know Chad personally so that is all I will say as I don't want to accidentally spread misinformation if I don't get more granular tech specs correct.

Blouch isn't really very active in the community while Chad is, so that is most likely why you saw much more "CBRD" turbos. Plus Chad is a nice guy and has much better public relations than Blouch did/does.

I tuned a bunch of Blouch Dom 2.0's on Evo 10's back before CBRD released the BBX/BBK series. The BBX (non lite) was very inline with the Dom 2.0.

Thanks that clears it up. Did not know that. When you say was the manufacturing arm, has that changed?

CBRD has moved to offering EFR based kits now.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ve...-complete.html

Stock Frame Options
 

Stumbled across this:

http://www.cavalliturbo.com/Mitsubishi

These are interesting to me (ceramic ball bearing, billet center section), but strange to me for two reasons.

1.) The turbine specs (Stage1) are 55/56mm inducer (website says opposite for ind/exd) - either way they are very different with nearly a constant blade profile and inducer-exducer. The good news is they (turbines) are made of 713c inconel (same as MHI and Garrett).

Compressor: 53mm inducer, 71mm exducer
Turbine: 55mm inducer, 56mm exducer

Advertised as a 540hp turbocharger. Not sure how the turbine could support that. Stage1 is listed as an alternative to the GT3071 by Garrett which is advertised at 475hp (see #2). Comes with turbosmart actuator with a collection of springs for varied setups.

2.) Then you have the Garrett bolt-on turbochargers that frankly I would ALWAYS choose for the price over the Cavalli due to the more proven ball bearing center. The older GT series can be had for the same price as the Cavalli ($1800 to $1900) and are proven through and through. GTX is a 300-500 dollar premium over the GT aero profile. You get 713c inconel, ball bearing and a turbine housing as good if not better than MHI. They made a mistake on the internal wastegate flapper when they first released it (failed open killing boost). They made it right, but the evo community never forgets.

3.) You can go ghetto Kamak/Kinugawa which is what I am in the process of doing and am documenting here:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ett-kamak.html

Downside is Taiwan built, and 718 inconel turbine which is 300-400deg lower failure temperature than 713c. The 4b11 doesn't exactly run cool, so I will be staying rich. The scoobie guys love these things, and I have high hopes. If it fails I am jumping straight to Garrett and not messing around with journal bearings. One more positive and negative is 9-blade STS turbine that should flow more than a stock TD05, so in theory this should beat a FP 71HTA upgraded TD05. Negative is no stock compressor housing with anti-surge. Surge will have to be controlled by ECU or swap a 20g anti-surge compressor and weld up your own outlet zig zag for the stock heatshield.

my 3 cents

~Jaraxle

I agree with whoever above that if there was a stock frame EFR for 2 grand I would jump on that in an instant.

Thanks for chiming in Bryan-

This is all correct-

our wheels were typically a little massaged- over what Blouch offered- and the reason they were specific to us we because of the level of testing/development we put into it with Blouch- the Ball Bearing applications were done specifically for CBRD- which is why you really didnt see them elsewhere-

;)

cb

check out turbo charger systems on FB. They are doing some cool affordable things for the Evos.

affordable and proven dont always go together ;)

cb

The valve cover has two vents, one to the intake tube, and on the intake mani with a pcv valve. The radium can needs bigger fittings to work. I have the dual radium kit on my car with all 10an hose and fittings (they come with 6an, not big enough). One goes through a check valve to the intake mani (this one also has a 3/8" restrictor so that the car idles at a proper rpm, and the other goes to the turbo inlet pipe.


My setup works very well, It 100% solved the leaking issue I was haing with my bb red, which was leaking quite a bit. However, a lot of guys also seem to have good luck with the VTA types setups like STM's

driven fab or kozmic VTA catch can's with the -10AN lines work quite well.

So, do you guys think the Garrett GTX3071R (Stock replacement, .73A/R, 56-57LB/min) turbo be able to get me 400whp on California 91 octane pump gas? Or do I need something a little bigger? FP Red/EF3... :confused:
All bolt ons, stock cams, stock Ex mani

I have brand new JB BBX for sale...I love this turbo. on E85 i made 470whp and could easily make more but i'm on stock block

Since they haven't been mentioned; HKS offers the GTII 7460 Kai and the GTII 8262 Kai for the X. The 8262 is good for ~450 whp and it's what I run on my personal Evo.

Running an FP Red that is making 419awhp and 377tq in my MR. Was talking with them this morning and was considering upgrading to a FP Black.

^ What fuel & mods? Are you stock block?

No love for MHI 18K?

The MHI does look like a great turbo, but not sure it'll get me 400whp on 91 with stock cams..

I am definitely not running stock block man - COBB completely built my engine in every aspect.

It was just the right way to go for me. Not internals aren't the numbers or environment I want on my car.

if it's restricted to 3/8", why not just run a 3/8" hose?

Because I didn't want to buy more AN fittings, so I shoved a restrictor in the line.

FP or Garret all day!

I am now in the same boat, looking at what is avaliable for my Evo 6 as a stock replacement or as close to.

I have a EF3 which is giving me 420whp with factory cams at 25psi but it makes full boost at 5k. I am getting a bit over the lag, and wanting to put in some cams I know will make things worse.

I have come across an old ATP GT3076 Duall BB turbo with factory Evo inlet flange, and 3" V band exit with a .82 rear housing.
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...de=GRT-TBO-005

And I have now seen the FP Evo 9 71HTA upgrade option, which is pretty cheap upgrade from factory TD05 and seems to work well from what I have briefly read, and have quick spool!


My EF3 has no problem delivering me power, we did manage a one off 470whp run but it was a bit unsafe. It is just laggy as! And I cant figure it out.
Has anyone got any advice for the above turbos? I am not completley sold on the ATP, it is old technology and they have very mixed reviews!
Is there any other oprions? FP Reds are now beyond my price range with the exchange rate :(


Sorry for hijacking this thread!

The 71hta is the route I was going to go, but I couldn't find a hot side for sale in the size I wanted. It's a great setup. It will spool much faster than that ef3 and make good power.
Then again, I like smaller turbos. Cars feel faster to me when they are torquey as opposed to making everything above 6krpm. So take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Where do you guys find the FP turbos for sale? On their website they list the prices for green red and black as 9,999 and say they only produced a limited supply. So how is that such a popular setup? Is the website misleading? How much do these turbo upgrades actually go for, certainly not 9,999.

Thanks