Almost Crapped My Pants Tonight ...
Feb 18, 2012, 06:12 PM
#16
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: LA, CA
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apr 13, 2012, 10:21 PM
#17
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will try tightening down one lug completely the next time around for sure. This was also how I was able to get the wheels back on. I just feel lucky that nothing got TOO f*cked up.
As for someone's comment regarding the difference in the bevel shape between the wheel and the lug nuts (i.e., when someone uses tuner lugs on some OEM wheels), well, I feel like this is exactly the situation from the factory. Typically a tuner wheel has very obvious 60* bevel at the circumference of the holes, for fit-up to the lug nuts, which are beveled 60* (like the EVO X's). In the case of OEM wheel, there is barely any noticeable bevel at the circumference (which is also the case for the EVO X), hence a different type of lug nut ends.
So, here we are, a wheel that hasn't gotten any sort of pronouced bevel and lug nut ends with very obvious bevel (I can't actually measure if it's 60*, but it looked like it). Isn't this the exact situation when you put aftermarket lug nuts on OEM wheels?
As for someone's comment regarding the difference in the bevel shape between the wheel and the lug nuts (i.e., when someone uses tuner lugs on some OEM wheels), well, I feel like this is exactly the situation from the factory. Typically a tuner wheel has very obvious 60* bevel at the circumference of the holes, for fit-up to the lug nuts, which are beveled 60* (like the EVO X's). In the case of OEM wheel, there is barely any noticeable bevel at the circumference (which is also the case for the EVO X), hence a different type of lug nut ends.
So, here we are, a wheel that hasn't gotten any sort of pronouced bevel and lug nut ends with very obvious bevel (I can't actually measure if it's 60*, but it looked like it). Isn't this the exact situation when you put aftermarket lug nuts on OEM wheels?
Well, "tuner" lug nuts are conical because they're used to center the wheel AND hold the wheel on to the hub.
OEM lug nuts have a square shoulder because centering the wheel with the axis of rotation is done by the hubcentric ring. The lug nuts job is to hold the wheel on the hub.
It only makes sense to produce aftermarket wheels with conical contact surface, as they would be applicable to a wider variety of cars.
I too made the mistake of trying to torque down on the nut without the wheel clocked properly. The aluminum mating surface was gouged pretty heavily, but the wheel works just fine. Aluminum is MUCH softer than the hardened steel used for lug nuts.
Apr 14, 2012, 07:46 AM
#18
Account Disabled
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it means anything, i had the same issue with one of my(stock MR) bbs wheels.. I always use a floor jack and jackstand. while putting the wheel on at the time it laid flat agaisnt the hub i loosely fit all 5 lugnuts on. once all were hand tight i started to torque with a torque bar in the cross pattern.. it seemd to take for ever compared to the other wheels.. so i loosened them all off.. (all while the tire is still in the air. front drivers side) low and behold.. the lug nuts (stock) were making impressions in the wheel.. I belive i caught it early enough.. took it to my friends shop who filled the squished center bit of metal which would push the lug to the side the next time the wheel was used. got back home. installed the wheel it worked fine. no ill effects so far been using it for about 3000km and have rechecked the torque a few times now.. ps the dealer told me 90ft/lbs that's what ive been using.
So the car has close to 4000 miles on it, and I decided that I'll start my weekend off with an engine oil change and a tire rotation. The oil change went smooth; no problem. Then came the tire rotation.
Due to lack of tools, I use the scissor jack in the trunk to lift one wheel at a time and replace with the donut spare while I move that particular wheel to the rotated position. Everything was fine until it was time to torque down the lug nuts. I reviewed the service manual and it calls for 73 ft-lb +/- 7 ft-lb. I set my Craftsman torque wrench and gave it a go.
"Hold on a sec.! WTF! Why is it getting easier to turn?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" I tried it on other lug nuts and only 1 wheel out of 4 could be torqued down.
At this point, I seriously was about to crap my pants. I was not about to replace 15 studs ...
I decide to take off one wheel at a time to see what the f*ck was going on. This is when I went from screaming "WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF" at the middle of the night to just dead silence. I had not paid any attention to the fact that the through holes on the BBS wheels weren't really beveled at all. Due to the lug nut shape, I had just assumed that the BBS were like the rest of the aftermarket wheels with that 60* bevel around the edge where the lug nut meets the face of the wheel. Luckily, none of the studs or lug nuts threads were stripped. "Whew!"
As a result of my negligence, a good number of wheels had "new" bevels made for them, except most were off centered. The wheels were put on the car and hand tightened. My routine was do hand tighten all the wheels and then torque them all down together once they're all on the ground. But because the clearance was so large, the center points for the 5 holes on the wheels did not meet up perfectly with the center points for the 5 studs. While in the air, my hand tightened lug nuts were able to center the wheel, but once it's on the ground, the weight of the car simply was too great for the hand-tightened lug nuts. The wheels becomes off-centered once it was on the ground, and my torque wrench just went to town making bevels.
Seeing how soft the wheel material was, I decided the best course of action without replacing the wheels was to just bevel the wheel as I tighten the wheel down while the car's in the air. I lifted each wheel, loosened the lug nuts, with one arm pushing against the wheel to make sure that the wheel remained approximately centered, then hand-tightened the lug nuts. This was then followed by hand-tightening with my 1/2-drive wrench until all 5 lug nuts cannot be turned, all in the mean while I'm mustering whatever strength I had left pushing the wheel into the hub with the other arm.
The plan worked. I was able to torque down all the wheels while they're in the air, and checked again after putting them all down. A quick drive afterwards with some fast turning seemed okay. I couldn't feel any play from the wheels; so far so good.
At this point, I'm not sure if the wheels can be taken off and re-tightened again for the next service. I guess it'll be another 4000 miles before I find out.
I searched around a bit, and it seems like I'm the only dumbass in the world ...
But frankly, I'm a bit surprised by the wheel design. How are people supposed to center the wheel? The next time you do your rotation, you can see that even if the center of the wheel is centered with the axle, the 5 holes may not be aligned with the 5 studs. You can actually rotate the wheel CCW and CW because the through holes on the wheels are so damn large.
I think it's time I start saving for some new wheels... I seriously do not feel safe driving this thing right now, let alone doing any of the fun things likes like autocross or track days. So, just a word (or, lots of words) of caution: be very careful when tightening these down.
As a side note, I was really impressed by how light these wheels are with tires. My 2009 WRX had 17x8 RPF1 with Hankook RS-3, and those felt heavier than these.
Due to lack of tools, I use the scissor jack in the trunk to lift one wheel at a time and replace with the donut spare while I move that particular wheel to the rotated position. Everything was fine until it was time to torque down the lug nuts. I reviewed the service manual and it calls for 73 ft-lb +/- 7 ft-lb. I set my Craftsman torque wrench and gave it a go.
"Hold on a sec.! WTF! Why is it getting easier to turn?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" I tried it on other lug nuts and only 1 wheel out of 4 could be torqued down.
At this point, I seriously was about to crap my pants. I was not about to replace 15 studs ...
I decide to take off one wheel at a time to see what the f*ck was going on. This is when I went from screaming "WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF" at the middle of the night to just dead silence. I had not paid any attention to the fact that the through holes on the BBS wheels weren't really beveled at all. Due to the lug nut shape, I had just assumed that the BBS were like the rest of the aftermarket wheels with that 60* bevel around the edge where the lug nut meets the face of the wheel. Luckily, none of the studs or lug nuts threads were stripped. "Whew!"
As a result of my negligence, a good number of wheels had "new" bevels made for them, except most were off centered. The wheels were put on the car and hand tightened. My routine was do hand tighten all the wheels and then torque them all down together once they're all on the ground. But because the clearance was so large, the center points for the 5 holes on the wheels did not meet up perfectly with the center points for the 5 studs. While in the air, my hand tightened lug nuts were able to center the wheel, but once it's on the ground, the weight of the car simply was too great for the hand-tightened lug nuts. The wheels becomes off-centered once it was on the ground, and my torque wrench just went to town making bevels.
Seeing how soft the wheel material was, I decided the best course of action without replacing the wheels was to just bevel the wheel as I tighten the wheel down while the car's in the air. I lifted each wheel, loosened the lug nuts, with one arm pushing against the wheel to make sure that the wheel remained approximately centered, then hand-tightened the lug nuts. This was then followed by hand-tightening with my 1/2-drive wrench until all 5 lug nuts cannot be turned, all in the mean while I'm mustering whatever strength I had left pushing the wheel into the hub with the other arm.
The plan worked. I was able to torque down all the wheels while they're in the air, and checked again after putting them all down. A quick drive afterwards with some fast turning seemed okay. I couldn't feel any play from the wheels; so far so good.
At this point, I'm not sure if the wheels can be taken off and re-tightened again for the next service. I guess it'll be another 4000 miles before I find out.
I searched around a bit, and it seems like I'm the only dumbass in the world ...
But frankly, I'm a bit surprised by the wheel design. How are people supposed to center the wheel? The next time you do your rotation, you can see that even if the center of the wheel is centered with the axle, the 5 holes may not be aligned with the 5 studs. You can actually rotate the wheel CCW and CW because the through holes on the wheels are so damn large.I think it's time I start saving for some new wheels... I seriously do not feel safe driving this thing right now, let alone doing any of the fun things likes like autocross or track days. So, just a word (or, lots of words) of caution: be very careful when tightening these down.
As a side note, I was really impressed by how light these wheels are with tires. My 2009 WRX had 17x8 RPF1 with Hankook RS-3, and those felt heavier than these.
Apr 14, 2012, 07:48 AM
#19
Evolved Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Sudbury ON
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've found that using a battery-powered impact solves this issue for me. The impact I use doesn't have enough torque to over-torque my wheels, so I hand tighten my lugs when the car is in the air, then hit it with the impact. This torques the lugs down to about 30-35 ft-lbs. Then I lower the car and re-torque. If you don't have an impact like this, a similar method is to have a buddy jump into the car and hold the brakes while you torque the wheels down while they're still in the air. With no load on the wheels, the results are always better this way.
This is especially important on aftermarket wheels with hubcentric rings, since the rings might deform a bit if the lugs aren't tightened enough when you put the car on the ground (and even more important if you've skipped getting those rings).
This is especially important on aftermarket wheels with hubcentric rings, since the rings might deform a bit if the lugs aren't tightened enough when you put the car on the ground (and even more important if you've skipped getting those rings).
Apr 15, 2012, 03:10 AM
#20
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: LA, CA
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks guys for your input. I actually couldn't wait to get out onto the track, so these wheels have gone through two events at Buttonwillow and SOW. So far, everything's good. I rotated the wheels once more since the last time.
Like many have said, I find it crucial with these wheels to tighten them good before putting the car back on the ground. Especially now that the edges are screwed up, I have to manually adjust/rotate (CW or CCW in the plane of the brake rotor) to make sure the studs are centered in the holes. It also doesn't help that the EVO X wheel bore is in a conical shape(?). Anyways, this is where a lift would be great. If you can tighten the wheels while the car is in the air, the torque you're applying is sufficient to center the wheel (it only has to deal with the weight of the wheel and the tire). But if the car is on the ground, it has to deal with approx. 1/4 of the weight of the car :/
So far so good, so maybe I can save myself a few $$$$
Like many have said, I find it crucial with these wheels to tighten them good before putting the car back on the ground. Especially now that the edges are screwed up, I have to manually adjust/rotate (CW or CCW in the plane of the brake rotor) to make sure the studs are centered in the holes. It also doesn't help that the EVO X wheel bore is in a conical shape(?). Anyways, this is where a lift would be great. If you can tighten the wheels while the car is in the air, the torque you're applying is sufficient to center the wheel (it only has to deal with the weight of the wheel and the tire). But if the car is on the ground, it has to deal with approx. 1/4 of the weight of the car :/
So far so good, so maybe I can save myself a few $$$$
Apr 15, 2012, 07:58 PM
#21
Evolving Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't worry... the same thing happened to me the first time I tightened the wheel lug nuts on my MR.
Other than a small sliver of aluminum from where the nut bit into the wheel, no damage was done. And, the car has been tracked extensively since then.
I learned the terms "hubcentric" vs. "lugcentric" that day...
Other than a small sliver of aluminum from where the nut bit into the wheel, no damage was done. And, the car has been tracked extensively since then.
I learned the terms "hubcentric" vs. "lugcentric" that day...
Apr 17, 2012, 07:11 PM
#22
Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is pretty much the same thing that happened to me when the service tech at the mitsu dealership rotated my wheels when I was getting my first free oil change. I watched him torque the wheel in question and I was driving along and took a turn and the wheel shifted because it wasn't centered and then all the lugnuts but one were loose while I was on the highway with nowhere to pull over. Damaged my mounting holes before I could get pulled over. Just thankful the wheel didn't come off while driving!
Apr 18, 2012, 01:16 PM
#25
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ha! I thought i did the same when I was rotating the tires also. I freaked out and feared I'd stripped the studs, but it was exactly what you were experiencing. Lesson learned...as I now make sure the wheel is centered on the hub and hand-tighten until properly seated to torque down.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
aggieEVO
Evo Tires / Wheels / Brakes / Suspension
4
Sep 21, 2015 07:03 AM
vtluu
Evo How To Requests / Questions / Tips
25
Mar 31, 2013 02:39 AM
turboDan
Evo How To Requests / Questions / Tips
86
Oct 26, 2012 12:47 AM
ksemski
Evo Tires / Wheels / Brakes / Suspension
7
Jul 24, 2012 03:27 PM
anthonypazsd
Evo How Tos / Installations
1
Jan 31, 2010 03:01 AM
