Many debates over the years over why or why not use ZINC.
You have internet experts that say NO wait ZINC does nothing to protect an engine.
These internet gurus like to claim that they have been running X Y and Z oil's for long periods and their engine has not failed. But what they have failed to understand is that the oil they are running has some form of ZINC already in it, whether is a low level at 600 PPM or higher levels 1000 and above they just don't know what the content of ZDDP has been.


So here I the scoop on why YES we in the performance community we still benefit from ZDDP (ZINC and Phosphorus:

Some quick points:
- ZDDP is an essential additive to reduce wear and tear which mostly occurs during cold start ups or heavy load driving (Racing, towing, driving hard ect...)
- ZDDP also improves on oxidation stability. It also exhibits mild extreme-pressure (EP) protection

Specifically ZDDP helps protect high impact surfaces. In most cases these areas would be cam lobes to lifter surfaces or piston rings to cylinder walls.
So as the temperatures inside the engine rise the parts become closer to each other and the ZDDP additive decomposes and the resulting chemistry is what protects the metal surfaces. In other words ZDDP is heat/pressure activated.
So here is where ZDDP shines because as it activates now what we have is a film of the additive in between the moving parts, and metal to metal contact where before it could have occurred now it will NOT. Hence less friction = less heat = more power and less wear on the internals.

Here is a good informational video by a Jr tribologist by the Joe Gibbs oil company. It explains why ZDDP. I think that out of all info vids this is very close to being worth to listen to for educational purposes:



Why don't all oils today carry the correct amount of ZDDP for the performance engines we are using (Example of those are Mobil 1 off the shelf and many other SM rated oil's:

- Environmental reasons. Phosphorus can land in the catalytic converter if you have one. Just like the leaded fuels from the 70s.
As a result the EPA has mandate that the levels of ZDDP be lowered to regulated numbers.
- IMPORTANT TO NOTE: The largest portion of volatile phosphorus is right after you change your oil, from there is down hill your amount of ZDDP continues to drop. So oils that start with a low amount of ZDDP will give you less protection over time. (The typical types of oils with low ZDDP are the ones your normally pick up at the store with an API-SM label on them)

 

This guy disagrees with Zinc:

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

 

one would have to be a fool to believe what that jockey has to say. Just saying !



Here was our response to this previously:


A few issue I see with this guy,,, I am wondering if he had to do some sort of project for his graduate engineering class or is he trying to pin another patent


1. Remember that all bearing and journals in an engine are torqued to a spec to allow for proper clearances this to allow for a controlled space for oil flow. With the numbers being shown in 540RAT report, the main and rod bearing would have to be torqued to unreasonable numbers. The engine would not even turnover, let alone run.
2. Look deep into the article and you will see a disclaimer "My test equipment is not intended to duplicate an engine internal components... so.. what's the purpose then ? The results are meaningless.
I also see a lot of support for "oil extreme concentrate" Wonder what involvement he has in that company. One more thing, Just a lot of gobbley gook to make it sound to good to be true. If this is not a one armed bandit , it's so close it not even funny.

 

imo, if you have to go directly to name calling, that usually means you don't have much of an argument. Your statements which follow don't help you much either.

1. Not sure what the torque spec for the bearing caps have to do with this. We are talking about loads which are not caused by bearings/journals.
2. If a test replicates stress to an oil film between metal/metal interfaces, what does it matter if it replicates a real engine or not? It should still be representative of how the oil will behave when similar stress levels are applied.

He explained his connection with the "oil concentrate" stuff. If you look at the results, it doesn't always produce better results.

 

Lol, and the BS scare tactics continue.

It gets quite nauseating

 

Right and it makes me very suspicious when someone's writes an essay that long for at the end of the day promote an additive.. Obvious his agenda was to promote a product that most likely is his own designed product.
You can't find any data on this guy or nothing that I could find, so makes it easier to believe he is behind the wheel of the Oil Extreme Additive.

I can care less if ZDDP works or Oil Extreme additive works in OILs. I want the best additive for my OILs so my customers continue to come back and our engines are protected... But there is way to many hard facts at this point that pin-point the industry towards using ZDDP Still.

They may be onto something, surely the OIL industry shall continue to go forward innovating. I like their thinking though. Thinner oil is better


http://www.oilextreme.com/oil1.html

 

I found that the number one performing oil in that test was lacking the additive, which made it less suspect IMO.

 

Right and I agree with that. But if you read through the long a** essay the highlight of the day was the additive.


I know we can go back and forward on this all day long. But the main goal was to share what ZDDP has been doing. Now if we want to have a discussion on how does ZDDP stack up to the main ingredient of this additive (Calcium petro sulfonate) then I welcome the debate.

Don't want this thread cluttered.

 

The main ingredient in the Oil Extreme product is Calcium Sulfanate. They may be onto something but I would like to see some more testing on this.
For a very down to earth explanation on the reason why we use ZDDP and Calcium in an OIL chemistry read post number #2131487 also #2130421 from the link I provided from Bobistheoilguy.com web site link. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2130351



Quote from their wesite:

Calcium Petrolium Sulfonate is already used as an alkaline reserve in all motor oil additive packages.
Oil Extreme's™ brilliant chemist has developed a revolutionary new way of manipulating the molecules of Calcium Petrolium Sulfonate so he could "overbase", or add excess amounts to the Oil Extreme™ additive package booster. Under heat and pressure this excess Calcium Petrolium Sulfonate forms an extremely hard tribochemical film that fills the asperities of an engine's metal surfaces.

 

Actually, he doesn't. What he says is that the additives he tested (prolong and the oil extreme) seemed to work well for oils which have low protection to begin with and that adding an additive to an already well performing oil can/will hurt its performance, albeit not by much.

none of which you present, which makes you just as bad as the other guy, in your eyes.

 

So then what you are saying is that all that I wrote in my first post is basically made up, and that is not data collected through science studies, mechanical experience and lab testing ?.
I am giving you data in my first post. I even gave you data on ZDDP from another company "Joe Gibbs" which has nothing to do with AMSOIL.

I am not here to convince the skeptical person but the one who is willing to learn... wont argue with every internet warrior.

 

So lets assume I don't know anything about OILs. Here I am sharing some links of some shops/gearheads that race and or manufacture products that need good well designed OILs what other people which some I don't even know or have any vested interest.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeyxb8_kevin-at-schneider-cams-and-zddp_auto
The guy in this video "Pat" is well respected in the OIL chemistry industry: Pat talks about 800 PPM is well for most cars but the issue most off the shelf oils are sometimes down in the 600. Pat also focuses on flat tappet engines Evos don't care about this but the fact is ZDDP is beneficial for any surface that is prone to metal to metal contact

 

You and I apparently have a very different definition of what constitutes data. There are only claims in your post. No testing, no methodology, nothing even linked to studies or experiments performed. Even before/after wear patterns, something, would have been helpful. The video in your first post, not even remotely informative. You want to be helpful in allowing people to learn? Link to some of those studies and lab testing. Find technical papers on the subject that back up your claims. Do something productive other than posting propaganda and calling names to people who disagree with you.

What is really amusing here is this:

Here we have a person who actually works to sell oil, telling us that if you are even plausibly connected to an oil company, you MUST be a shill, and nothing you say could be truthful because you are just saying it to sell your product.

Perhaps we should take your advice.

 

Oh I can load you up with charts and analysis all day long. And try to convince the audience with engineering lab style test. However what is more practical and at ease to understand to us is testimonial and field usage of the products. Here is some for the data hungry folks:
http://www.gf-5.com/uploads/File/SAE_2007-01-1990.pdf

Not everyone understands charts and plots, and then some don't believe the little videos... but we have found that the majority is more comfortable with easy data as I have shown here.


In attempt to back out from the idle talk,,, let me ask you what is you stance on ZDDP ??

 

High doses are in NO WAY needed in today's modern engines. Any company or person trying to tell people differently or that your engine won't last as long as someone using high ZDDP content oils is/are fools. PERIOD


We have been over this 10 million frigging times now. The ****ing horse is dead, it's been dead, stop ****ing kicking it.

Again its really nauseating. The whole world is sick of hearing it