MR Trans is worth every penny!
 

Seeing the car up close didn't do much for me. The wheels didn't set off the car like I'd hoped and the chrome trim in the front was tacky. The seats feel better though. But enough of that, the trans makes this car. Its almost like Mitsubishi put a clunky 5-speed in the GSR on purpose. It makes you feel like Paul Tracy is hidding in the MRs trans doing the shifting for you.

In normal mode the car will shift as smooth as a Lexus. It feels like you are actually engaging the clutch from a stop in first just like a hand shaker. But once you get moving she feels just like any high end auto trans upshifting for you.
In sport mode things start to get interesting. Almost no turbo lag! Its like the car knew what gear to be in to eliminate it. And it shifts hard and percise. No hesitation or delay or gear hunting. Its always in the right gear at the right time to keep the car moving. I didn't try it in super sport mode because the car was too new.

And forget the stupid paddle shifters, this car doesn't need them. It brings back the human element in driving this car. Still a human can make a mistake on where to upshift or downshift. A human could never shift like this 100% of the time and thats why this trans is so good. Get rid of the human element in shifting and you get perfection. The only reason I could even see someone wanting a manual is if they wanted to make 200 more hp than stock. And even then I would take an MR SST over a GSR with 200 more hp. Real high powered fast manual trans EVOs can be a bear to drive everyday and can become old fast. This car will alow you to relax and have the power to pass anyone at will. That will never get old. It may leave you wanting for more power, but once you break something or get stuck in traffic with some light switch of a EVO, you'll want to go back to being mildly modified with a nice everyday car. Just my opinion.

A couple of things I noticed on my test drive:
-the car felt real strong, like 50 more hp stronger than a GSR.
-I never felt any flat spot in the power band like in the GSRs.
-the car actually felt fast in a straight line (like stock IX fast)
-smooth ride, tad bit smoother than a GSR or even an STI
-the car felt very poised over broken pavement (it didn't skitter around or track the crown of the road).

I walked up to the car disapointed and walked away with the excitement of a little kid opening up a new gift on Christmas morning. For the money Mitsubishi hit a homerun with this setup. Now I could only imagine what a Nissan GTR feels like. Same type of trans with double the power. :mitsu:

Nice review, someday I'll have to take a test drive of an MR just to see what it's like.

Go to the closest dealership and demand the test drive. I'm in Mitsubishi sales myself and I couldn't deny any person with car enthusiast blood in them. I'd have anyone drive it just to show off what this car can do. Being around cars all day long makes you look at everything as being metal and plastic. This car just made me fall in love all over again.:D

I concur. I felt the same way on my first test drive with the MKV GTI w/DSG. The MR is noticeably faster and *gasp* refined (AWD vs. FWD) than the GTI, but the dual clutch magic and seemless torque transfer is in both cars. If I could own two cars, the GTI and the MR would be my two choices. One for the track, the other for DD. Lazy the dual clutch makes you, but it is so darnded gratifyingly addictive.

Good write-up OP.

i wish i had my MR, 4 more months.. come on!! this is making me wanting it even more. Thanks OP for this bad *** review.

Great review. I was luky enough to tes drive one of the first EVO X MR in the country and I share your review. The transmission is deliciosly nice. People must start accepting that the technology already changed,is changing and will change forever the performance of the transmissions.

Just look around and see how many other manufacturers already did the move, Porsche, VW,Lamborghini,Buggatti, Audi, Mitsubishi and the list goes on and on.

Botton line, the new MR transmission is butter smooth, I drive a car that has the same technology(07 vw GLI with DSG), it is worth having it.

my .2c

Carlos

Nice write up. I agree and am enjoying driving mine......and trust me, I don't miss my manual at all {thumbup}

Nice review:mitsu: I was told that the MR SST is the same one used on the new Nissan GTR..............anyone know if this is true:confused:

It's the same type of tranny (dual clutch 6 spd) but not the same tranny by any means.

I was told that both tranny are made by the same company..............Getrag(sp?):confused:

Borg warner makes the GTR tranny. Getrag makes the TC-SST

Well congrats on the car, but I don't think you really know much about the GSR making comments like that. It's got a much stronger tranny than the MR, and although it may be a bit rough because of having very aggressive synchros, it's the strongest tranny that mitsu has ever made and will hold a ton of power. As far as it feeling slow and having flat spots in the powerband... maybe you drove one of the early GSRs that didn't have the latest factory reflash that I guarantee your MR has, but saying that the GSR feels 50 hp slower is ridiculous... especially considering that the magazines all rate the GSR as being faster in the 1/4.

Look, I'm happy for you that you are enjoying your MR, but realize that it's a luxury cruiser version of the GSR, and although it's faster around some tracks, it's slower around others; this has been proven in the magazine tests of the two. The suspesion is also softer sprung as well, which is why it feels cushier than the GSR. This unfortunately shows up in the skidpad tests though, showing the GSR at .99 Gs and the MR at .96 Gs. Slower slalom speed is another area that it takes a hit as well. It makes up for these shortcomings on certain tracks that require a lot of shifting by providing the super fast shifting that you are enjoying so much, but on higher speed tracks that don't require quite as much shifting it loses to the GSR.

Mitsubishi even said so themselves in a press release that the GSR is for the sports car enthusiast and purist, whilst the MR is for the guy who wants great performance but values creature comforts and technology more than all out performance and rawness. All I'm saying is that your perception of the GSR is way off and you need to chill out with the superiority complex of your MR being better than the GSR and realize that there had to be compromises in your MR model to make it the better daily driver that for you is definitely a better fit. Just be aware of the fact that there's no such thing as a luxury race car. It's one or the other, and when you add a little bit of one aspect it takes away from the other. {thumbup}

[QUOTE=LITE SPD;5896517]-the car actually felt fast in a straight line (like stock IX fast)
QUOTE]

nice review dunno if the MR feel like IX fast tho hehe I have both. IXs diffinetly has bit more of a kick than the MR and launches faster as well. :) I love my MR and there s nothing like it. Not even the new M3 drives as nice. My cousin spent 80g and its a total bust driving 15mpg hehe gratz on the new car!

I don't know how relevant this is, but coming from a "medium" modified cobra. I'd have to disagree,

ESPECIALLY with a turbo car (coming from a heavily modified GSX) you can have the best of both worlds, stop and go traffic has NOTHING to do with how modded your car is, there's no such thing as a "light switch" evo, that **** makes me laugh, those 2L wont do **** with out a spooled turbo.

the trans. though, that sounds VERY interesting, right now I'm leaning in the direction of the GSR (mostly for monetary factors and weight and power capabilities)

BUT

if this tyranny can take some heat. hmm...

I have been driving a customers car, with then new trans, it is a beautiful thing. aside from that I will keep my old clunky outdated 8 and get a skyline.

So how do you launch the MR at the track? keep it neutral and put it in drive while revving the engine???? Or is there a launch mode?

To be able to say that about an automatic/manumatic/whatever version of the is in itself a tribute the car IMO. Especially given the tradeoffs you mention to make to make it "luxury cruiser".

if you find a flat spot in the gsr , that is probably the crappy tune or you miss shifted.
The X runs way higher rpms in gears then my IX not to mention my VIII.
And due MIVEC and the new turbo set up the torque comes sooner and the power band is smoother too.
On the other hand I 100% with you. If you need a DD or the mild tune car the MR is a winner formula, period.{thumbup} :mitsu:
Good to hear you like it! Congrats for the car!

PS
But for track purposes and so on, the GSR is a better choice,since you dont waste money on, what you will change out anyway.
Which is proven already in the evo history.
You will change rims, breaks, rotors, seats , stereo etc if you for track. So who planning to not just occasionally tracking the car, the GSR is a no brainer.

somehow evo and relaxation doesn't mix. nice review though!

yeah its born with the first evolution...
Since then it is alive. And every new model or trim just oil on the fire. :)
That is why i think one of the best tuner car. It makes the people crazy about they car.:lol:
How is that goes?

:mitsu: We didn't just build the car ... We made a religion..:mitsu:

So you dont question some one religion ,right?:lol: :lol: :lol: {thumbup} {thumbup} {thumbup}

Like some are mentioning...
I think just the maintenance part of the SST trans will be $$$$...

But for the guys who really track their cars hard...manual will be better suited?
Less unfamiliar parts, ability to modify the trans to accommodate the mods...
I'd also assume less mechanical parts in the manual resulting less weight and less things that could go wrong at the track...

I'm still waiting for my opportunity to drive the MR here in chicago.

***good review by the way***

I'd like to see a comparison of "average skilled" drivers like myself take the MR and GSR around a track for at least 10 laps a piece (for consistency) and see how well each car performs. I appreciate magazine write ups as much as the next guy but bottom line is that I do not have the same driving skills as most (if not all) magazine testers and I'm guessing that most Average Joe drivers will go faster and have more fun in the MR.

I used to think that I needed the fastest bike out there and when I started getting schooled by guys on 600s and SV650s on my R1, I realized that I didn't have the skill to properly pilot a liter bike. I dropped down to a 600 and was immediately much faster. For me, it was letting go of my ego and finding the right "tool" to match my skill level.

That's one of the reasons I got the MR. But that's just me.

interesting write up...congrats on the MR!

Any thoughts?? I would also like to know....

thanks

"One little cool feature I got to experience was the MR’s launch control. It was extremely easy to activate. Switch to the right mode, foot on the brake, rev to 5k, and left off the brake and off you go. "

I'm pretty sure with a tune you'll be able to rev it up higher for a better launch.:thumbup:

Not really, since Mitsubishi purposely handicapped the GSR with a 5spd and gave the MR a 6spd. If they had the same ratios, things would be more favorable for the GSR imo...

HOLD ON GUYS!!!!! I didn't buy an MR. I sell Mitsubishi. All I did was test drive the car.

You are right, all we have on our lots are early build Evo X's. They don't have the reflash done and do feel down on power. That may be one of the reasons the MR felt stronger. 50hp was just a comparison, but I do know what 50hp feels like on a Evo (any Evo) and non relashed GSR's are pitifully slow. I never said I owned a MR, I sell them, thats how I got behind the wheel of one.

When you drive an MR, then you'll understand what my thread is talking about. Till then I would ask you to stop implying things about my thoughts or the MR trans.

Sure would like to, but the dealer won't let me. I guess I make too much money to be driving a Mitsubishi.

Seriously...I go into the dealer ready to drop $40k on a new car and they straight up tell me I can't test drive it. I guess they're trying to keep up the Mitsubishi tradition of not selling cars.

Back on topic, I can't wait to test out an MR. I never thought about getting one but it sounds too good to not consider...This is what the future of cars is moving towards so I think you've got to embrace it at some point.

I think some of it is personal preference. I hate not shifting myself, its just unnatural to me. Part of the allure of driving a performance car for me is a strong connection between the car and driver. Having a gearbox that you need to row and a driver controlled clutch really help accomplish this.

I don't care if an MR shifts faster than I can, smoother than I can, and has better gear ratios. Any transmission with flappy paddles and a clutch I cannot control gets a "no go" in my book, new GT-R included. I'd love to drive an MR and a GT-R, I could appreciate them a ton, but I won't convert. The last thing I want is to be more isolated from the whole driving experience.

After all that, though, I would love to see an MR with standard bolt ons and a full out custom tune. I bet one of these in the 350whp range would be just sick and really fun to try out on a track.

good review. makes me want to get one.

Very good non biased review.{thumbup}

Just playing devils advocate, but isn't the appealing thing about the Evo it's amazing technology compared to other cars? I mean think of how many CPU systems are controlling aspects of this car.

That said, I still can't make up my mind on whether to get an MR or GSR.

I would say it's more the capability than the technology. I don't care if the ayc is control by a trained monkey, so long as he is reliable and predictable :lol:

For a daily driver I would take a paddle shift. For dedicated track only... probably still the manual. If it was pro racing (as in lots of money on the line).. the paddle.

We just don't know enough about the MR tranny yet and it's ability to stand up to heavy modding.

Besides Mitsubishi, isn't that all just one company? :D

Though I hear others are about to offer it

Did the OP $#!T in your cornflakes? :lol:

Yes, there is a launch control.

Damn man I thought your complex ended with the X's. Now it's even against the X MR's? Stock for stock, haven't the MR's proven themselves on the track at least a part of the time on the track? You said yourself, with lower g's, softer springs, and a slower slalom time it still beats the GSR half the time. I bet it's due to the transmission he was praising.

Always trying to bust on anyone who even implies something negative about the X, like you're trying to make sure he knows his place in the world. Relax, your X GSR is much faster than any X MR will be.

He was just appreciating the brilliant MR transmission. It is possible that it may feel a little quicker when the tranny just goes on it's own and you're not even doing anything but holding down the gas. I've yet to test drive, as the dealership wouldn't let me, and didn't have one when I was in the market for a X, but I've heard only wonderful things about it (except it's launch control).

Someone mod a MR already! I was going to get a GT-R but a brake job is right at $6,000 and I am going to be tracking it, tranny change is $1000, oil change is $250 so they can keep it.

So change your own brake pads and fluids... :lol:

:lol:

My only comment was that he was knocking the GSR like his MR is so much better, and I thought I would just let the hard facts put him in his place.

Launch control procedure is shown here, haven't been brave enough to give it a go yet though.

http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?t...nnel=627259020

OK, this is the 3rd time I have said this in my own thread. Its not my car. I didn't buy one. I test drove it because I sell them.

I would pin any bolt on MR vs any bolt on GSR on any road course or auto X and the MR would win every time. That trans is just too good and too consistant. Just leave her in S-Sport and "D" and follow a good line on the track. There is just less for the driver to do. You don't seem to understand that track time records will fall with automated manuals like these. Its a whole new world out there buddy with advancing technology and new ideas, either your gonna join it or be put in your place. :updown:

Drive that b*tch like you stole it.

I go through at least one set of rear tires evry summer, she can take it, and if not, well then you found the weak spot that needs fixing.

if your car is limiting you then you need a new car, i guarentee thats not the case, become the driver mod :thumbup:

Thanks for the review. I got my MR two weeks ago with the aero kit. The tranny is fantastic. I used to run an S4 with the tiptronoc and I find, in stock form, this is much faster and taking turns is amazing. I would suggest everyone check the tire pressure. It was delivered with 48 psi and what a hard ride. When I figured out the problem, it was a pleasure.
Even on the road ,guys drive up and have me roll down the window to talk about the car. It definitly is a crowd pleaser.
My tuner says he will be able to bring the whp up to 310 without engine mods. That's about 360 engine hp based on our dyno test. Add the pipes and a good filter and you do the math. The tuner is confident that the sst will take it, as long as you don't launch on a regular basis.
Next weekend I get the tuning and will advise. Ivy is my tuner and has worked on my sons 8 with remarkable results.

I know you love your GSR as you should but what magazines are you reading.
The last one I read gave the MR a 1.03 on the skidpad. Regardless, every mag gives a different story as there are different drivers of different capabilities. Yes, the MR drives softer but it has a superior suspension and that's why. You pay more and you get more.
Those of you who want the GTR, just remember that it isn't any pleasure to drive casually. Hard ....hard.....hard. Every review says the same thing. Cheap interior, unmodible and hard riding. If your just tracking it's ok but on the road, I don't think so. We will see?

i was shopping the GTR until i found out the maintainance costs.

250 oil change
6000 (yes six thousand) for all 4 brakes
1000 tranny oil

the kicker? you cannot DYI any of this or you will void warranty. Its in the manual. If you dont like the way nissan is handling the maintainance issue..then dont buy it.

the MR is an amazing car, dont knock it until you take a test drive.

Oh, the irony...


:rolleyes:



Cabo

AMS has a thread where they've put several bolt-ons on the MR. It's in the X forums somewhere. I'm too hung over to look :D

Just go for it. It's set at a safe level so you wont destroy the tranny, clutches or diffs. You'll be fine {thumbup}

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=124246

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=126453

From the above lnk:
"The Evo MR, however, is too soft to take full advantage of its otherwise stellar chassis when the going gets truly uneven. We bottomed the suspension on several occasions. A big part of an Evo's advantage on a road like this is being able to put its tires in places that would upset cars with less suspension travel. But the MR's softer Bilstein dampers simply aren't up to this kind of pounding. The GSR's suspension is likely better suited to this terrain, but it's not available with the twin-clutch gearbox. So we're left wanting an Evo that doesn't exist — and knowing that it would be quicker still."

The MR is a great car, but the bilsteins are NOT superior, they are designed for a smoother ride and there is a performance compromise in doing so. The tranny is so great in that thing that it makes up for this on tracks that are tight and technical where a lot of shifting would otherwise be required. As mentioned before though, on faster tracks where there is not quite as much shifting required, the GSR is faster due to it's superior cornering performance. End of story.

What the? Damn...makes me think of not getting one (even the vspec) and just getting an evo.

Check this out...
 

The major flaw with the gsr is the lack of a six speed. If you're going past 70 mph, that tranny will get old quick. I would get a gsr if it had a 6 speed, but will hold off for the evo x mr. When I took a test drive in the gsr, I loved everything but the lack of an extra gear. And it is only a matter of time before the aftermarket will find some way of beefing the mr tranny up. If they can put 550 whp through a vw dsg, then it's only a matter of time for the evo mr...

I second that
 

It is only a matter of time before manual trannies become a thing of the past. And besides, mitsubishi put the achilles heel in the gsr with that 5 speed tranny. I would bet that every evo x gsr owner secretly would like a six speed tranny. Any speed over 70mph gets old quick...

I wouldn't rest your argument on the likes of Edmunds. Edmunds is pretty much at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to automotive press. :)

borg warner also makes the DSG tranny (which has been in the states since 03)

nah, I've made many 3+ hour trips at 80mph. The "noise" is not a problem, the RF system is pretty good and sounds decent while highway driving. The engine noise is a pretty nice "purr" and once you've been driving for 5-10min you don't even notice it.

I actually almost love the fact that it only has 5 gears. If it had 6 I would be in sixth on the highway, but then I wouldn't have that "instantaneous" throttle response that you get when in 5th on the highway. Driving this thing on the highway is sooo much more pleasurable then any other car. i just have to watch out cause i've found myself getting in excess of 90-95mph while passing someone without even realizing it simply because the throttle response is so smooth and instantaneous at 80mph.

I love the 5-speed. The 6-speed MR will probably be my next car in 6-7 years when I'm a bit older and looking to have an awesome performance car and a non stick DD. but for now, at 23 years old, rowing through gears is AWESOME and i think the car is perfectly geared for what it is.

Rowing through gears is fun. Clicking through them is fast.

In the 1999 world rally championship, the Subaru world rally team car featured an electronically controlled, hydraulically actuated semi-automatic transmission with a drive-by-wire throttle, allowing the cars to be shifted with steering wheel mounted paddles, similar to F1 cars. This allowed the driver to shift gears faster, and reduced the chance of dog gear wear.

Subaru was the first rally team to implement this technology, which is now used on all WRC cars.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_World_Rally_Team

I was able to test drive an MR last month and I was so impressed w/ the tranny that I purchased one on the spot. The normal mode hold the RPM better than most automatic trans, the Sport mode is incredible, and the S Sport mode is ... well I will have to wait for this weekend's track day to find out.

The sequential tranny used in race cars (such as rally, le mans etc) is not the same as the MR ones right? Aren't those the ultimate tranny interms of performance? Also you should be using dogbox if you want ultimate strength.

You are right. The MR does NOT have the same tranny as race cars. Those racing trannys are clutchless / synchroless dogboxes where the gears are essentially slammed from one to the next. And yes they are designed for ultimate strength. But it wouldn't be very practical for daily use - much less affordable.

But what the MR does have is the twin-clutch SST which will give you race-like results through "quicker gear shifting with no drop-off in engine power."

Imagine being able to powershift like 10 times faster than a manual. I can certainly see the advantages to that.

does the title of this thread sound wrong only to me? {noface}

Everybody knows that the Mitsu 5spd is strong. The transfer case is well...another issue. But my question is, where is everybody getting the idea that the TC-SST in the X MR weak? Did the tuners already reach the limit of the tranny? The fact that it has two clutches means two times the cost of upgrading, but has anybody reached the limit of the MR SST tranny yet?

I guess nobody knows.

i just bought my 08 ww x mr today, never test drove it.i traded in a evo9.i dont miss the evo9 at all.the mr does delay for a second mashing the gas in normal mode but it gets up and moves after that.

Have all of the SST haters in this thread done the carburetor "upgrade" on their EVO? Oh, and the hand choke? And dumped the ACD?

I have never seen a single post from anyone complaining about computer controlled fuel and air mixing on their EVO. If an ECU controlled engine is such a great idea, why would not a computer controlled tranny be at least as equally good an idea?

:mitsu:

agree.

+1

Hey don't stir the pot buddy! ;) Stating sensible things to unreasonable people will get you thrown in the logic penalty box :lol:

+1 Yes, this tranny is nice. Maybe someday I'll have one of my own.. {thumbup}

Because it's uninvolving and boring. Many pro drivers of cars like these complain that it takes away from the overall experience of what driving a sports car is all about. Aside from that, I think that the main issue is that from a modification point of view, these tranny types are not a good option. Mitsu even says in their training videos about the car that if something is wrong that the entire tranny needs to be replaced because it's a sealed unit and cannot be taken apart.

This is an issue for anyone who wants to modify their car, as the clutches cannot be upgraded and the design doesn't allow for anywhere near as much power handling capacity as a manual transmission. If you aren't a purist and don't care about driver involvement, and you don't plan on raising power levels then this would be a good choice for you. For everyone else, automated manual FTL.

the sst transmission on the MR is amazing. Sister got the silver one today and i just fell in love with it. oh well thats what i get for jumping in early and getting the gsr, instead of waiting for the MR like she did.;)

nm, i found my answer.

According to Getrag, 332lbs/tq is the limit.

WTF. Thats like..40 lbs/tq more than stock.

I put $1000 down on my MR, and they STILL won't let me test drive the GSR sitting on the lot.

The method of fuel injection to a motor doesn't change the driver inputs that make driving enjoyable.

From your responses, it appears that you've had lots of firsthand experience with aggressively driving both the GSR and the MR on a closed circuit.

Please share your lap times on both cars. Thanks!

are you serious?

I drove up to my dealer about four months ago when they first got the GSR X in, and they let me test drive no problem.

Then again, my S2000 and 350Z were the same as what you are going through. I just waited and told them every couple of months that if they wanted to sell a car they should let me test drive it. Eventually they got sick of me bugging them, and realized that I was actually going to buy the car and that the purpose of the test drive was giving control to the potential customer (myself)- something many cocky dealers won't give up.

In the end, I got what I wanted, and so did they. But I also was able to make them realize that a test drive can mean increased sales. I don't have that problem anymore, at least at any Jap. vehicle dealership. Now, Mercedes Benz and BMW dealerships, well, that's a whole other story.

When I walk in with the cash in hand, I will INSIST on a test drive or I'll tell them to shove the $1k up their...well, you know. Then I'll go buy the AS one sitting on the lot down the road.

Those are the LOSING drivers.. The ones with the automated trannies are the winning group.. Lol.. The winners are the ones that do what it takes to WIN, and clearly the automated transmissions are the way to go if you wanna win..

There is never an answer on what is 'pure', what is 'fair', but there is always an answer on what is 'win'.
If there was no restriction on anything, there will be cars that would make Formula 1 cars look like a tricycle, pulling jet fighter like g-force, making dragster horsepower figures, without a driver, using perfectly calculated path, where the highest point of the car would be aerodynamic cover for the wheels.
Currently there are way too many bans and restrictions in automotive sports for driver safety (and the environment up to some point).
But then in this case, these 'cars' will not be involved in races and purely for setting records (time trial), ie. it would no longer be a sport, but a competition for technology and design.

On the involvement side, how much do you want to be involved? Do you want to be pumping fuel manually into the engine while driving? Do you want the challenge of horribly set up suspension? Do you want to start the car using a flintstone? Do you want to be pedalling instead since engine is an 'automatic' power source?

Win what? The Internet pissing contest?

he wants to win at being a hot johnson breath

When was the last WRC car that you saw, where the driver was shifting manually? Maybe in the amature series.. Or as a last resort when the tranny breaks, they can override the automated shifting to get the car to the finish.. But that is the only way..

F-1, Automated.. Rolex series, Automated..

Keeps the drivers hands on the wheel, and gear exchanges much quicker.. Which is Mitsu's philosophy..

What does this have to do with a street car driven for enjoyment?

feeling is one thing, the numbers will make the difference

Lap times have nothing to do with it, we are talking about driver involvement. When you can't modulate the clutch and control the amount of torque that is being sent to the wheels it's uninvolving. When you can't row through the gears and control the gear selection with pure mechanical action, it's uninvolving. A true sports car enthusiast will take a stick any day because of this. It's also why porsche offers the GT2 in a six speed manual only, same as many other exotics. It's the same reason that until this year, there was only a manual option in all EVOs and STis. Oh, and if you want to talk about lap times, the GSR is actually faster on high speed tracks, whereas the MR is only faster on slow, technical tracks where a lot of shifting is required. Only then does the tranny offset the added weight and softer sprung suspension. {thumbdwn} Do some research buddy, you really need to.

That's actually not true at all. You clearly have no understanding or appreciation for what driver involvement really is and think that because on certain tracks an autotragic gearbox can put down a faster lap time by a couple of tenths that it's superior in spite of all the drawbacks, especially in terms of power holding capacity. {thumbdwn}


Hardly a legitimate comparison to having a stick. That's a ridiculous argument, and one that I'm not going to waste time with because you obviously don't get it. When you have a stick and a clutch, you can control the amount of torque with your left foot and the precise timing and selection of gearing with you right hand. Then comes the joy of pulling off perfect heel and toe downshifts, rev matching with perfection and displaying an actual skill level.

I prefer a stick because like all purists, I have spent time developing my skills and enjoy the connection between man and machine, as your physical efforts and actions make or break the outcome of the race. Paddle shifter trannies are for people who can't or don't want to drive a stick and wanna feel like what they have is better. Sorry, not the case. Sure, they can net SLIGHTLY, and only slightly faster lap times on certain tracks and in competitive racing this matters.

I would argue that they shouldn't even be allowed because driver skill ceases to play as much of a role when everyone has an automatic tranny and this goes against what racing is all about. Driver involvement is not something that you can tag a number to or classify in a magazine. That's the problem here; there's too many "magazine racers" on this forum and not enough real drivers... and if you don't know what that means then you're a magazine racer and have proven my point for me. {thumbup}

I have been a manual enthusiast for 20 years and can understand why you r so pasionate....but dissagree with ur statement above. U did not mention what 'racing' u r referring to but i guess its the low scale weekend type cos by ur definition, kimi, shuey, lewis, loeb, marcus, petter etc are all non drivers/racers..

We cant fight it forever. Every second counts and yes the current SST may not be there yet but i bet you in a few years it will be significantly faster.

Again to each his own and if u enjoy it you should...... its your own hard earned money. I think u took the initial thread poster comments too personally & it became a SST vs manual war...Both are still evos;)

Yes, I agree with the above. Driving fun and speed involves a lot more than just selecting gears you want to be in. Driving lines, car momentum, braking points, monitoring and preserving/maximizing wear out parts. You would know if you have raced 50cc go-karts before.

If you are so concerned about 'pure fun', then you bought yourself a wrong car my friend. You're better off driving cars like s2000 or non force induced lotus elise.

+1. All very valid points. I still bought the 5-spd because it is significantly cheaper, the SST tranny still hasn't proven it can handle serious power mods and I worry about its timing with even moderate mods but some tuners are already proving it is holding up fine so far, and since it is a closed transmission any repairs post-warranty would become very expensive.

The problem here is that sort of elitist, narrow-minded viewpoint. That just because certain individuals have been to the track or owned x number of cars, or whatever superficial reason, they are automatically some 'privileged' person or part of a superior driver enthusiast group. Well, that is flat out wrong and insulting.

To be an automotive enthusiast is to be someone who has a passion for cars and loves driving the cars they own. To some that may mean the feeling of clutching, shifting, heel-toe downshifting or what have you. To others that may mean something different. The original poster of this thread clearly has an automotive passion for an exciting technology. Just because it does not match YOUR idea of being an enthusiast, you feel the need to flash your thumbs down emoticons and impose elitist viewpoints on everyone who agrees? I'm afraid the only person who deserves a {thumbdwn} is you, my friend.

^Yawn. Clearly what I said went over your head and you didn't really read what I was saying. I never said that the SST is garbage and that anyone who drives one doesn't know anything about cars. I made the point that a true sports car enthusiast will prefer the control and level of driver involvement that a true manual offers and there is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The SST trannies are very impressive but they are boring and uninvolving, and shaving two tenths off lap times isn't worth the lack of driver involvement for a true enthusiast.

The real benefit, as even stated by mitsubishi themselves in a press release about the MR vs the GSR, is that the SST opens doors for people who can't or don't want to drive a stick and offers added convenience along with superior shift speed. The GSR is for the purist and true enthusiast; the guy that wants absolute control and a higher level of driver involvement. This is the core base of previous and current evo owners, and mitsu didn't want to divert from that. Thus the reason that the suspension setup of the GSR, at the expense of harshness, is stiffer and offers better handling than the MR, proven by skidpad and slalom tests in all the magazines.

The MR's purpose is to attract potential BMW and AUDI SMG or DSG buyers and lure them in with greater value and performance. THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE MR. The MR's tranny will never hold as much power as the 5 speed and with the added weight, added sound inslation, softer suspension, and lack of a true manual, it will never be the raw driving experience that the GSR is. You can interpret things however you want, but it is what it is.

Oh, and as far as your comment about the "elitist" state of mind is concerned, I would say that someone who actually HAS track experience and has driven a broad range of different cars with both manual transmissions and DSG style transmissions knows what it means to be a true enthusiast more than someone who has probably never even driven a stick, never taken the time to learn proper technique like heal/toe downshifting, and never even taken their car to the track and engaged in any real form of competition. And if you think differently then it clearly shows which category you fall into. No offense.

And you clearly did not read what I was saying, and further took the liberty to use my post as a way to insult me (and probably more members of this site). You have this arrogance that you are 'true sports car enthusiast' and that you are a 'purist' and it is really ridiculous. For you to speak for ALL sports car enthusiasts stating that there are no ifs ands or buts about your OPINIONS only further reinforces your arrogance. My beef with you is not on your technical points, but rather your readiness to dismiss others who have differing opinions than yours as some lower class of enthusiast. Get off your high horse - everyone has opinions and preferences and those do not make them any less 'sports car enthusiasts'.

To boil down what you have expressed so far in simple terms:
"I like cars and I like them a certain way. If you don't like cars the same way I like them, you don't deserve to be called an enthusiast."

Take a step back and realize how ridiculous that sounds.

Read the part that I added at the end of the post. I think that it pretty much says it all. If you can dispute my last paragraph then I would love to hear the response. Oh, and you're still not understanding what I'm saying but that's ok. I'm done and bored with this.

Wow, this kind of statement really makes me sick. Part of the reason I sold my Porsche is because the community is full of elitists much like yourself. I have enjoyed the fact that every Evo I see and even every STi I see flashes me a thumbs up and there is the mutual respect from having great cars. Well, a person like you brings shame to the label of Evo. You are so high up worshipping yourself that its beyond trying to help. If you insult the members of this site you should expect to have some of them insult you back. But I don't think that you can see far enough past your own glorious aura to realize that.

Amazing. So I'm wrong that someone with experience knows more than someone without experience? I guess that by that logic of thinking that I'm an elitist a-hole who brings shame to the evo name. :rolleyes: I'm done with this, it's hopeless. See ya around. (I hope I won't, but it's probably unavoidable.) :)

No, you're wrong because you're flat out wrong. The first part where you're wrong is where you assume that you know who you are talking to. You know absolutely nothing about me or most members of this site. The one thing you do know about me is that I drive an 08 GSR. But like the rest of your statements, you fail to recognize that my car is clearly a MT and instead try to prove more points with your 'superiority'. I do not doubt the fact that you may have some experience (and a mouth to go with it), but you are wrong to think that it gives you some sort of additional clout above anyone else. You are simply a random person, like myself, that is on the Internet - and you are not better than anyone.

And the single largest thing that you are wrong about is your definition of an enthusiast. The type of person you have been describing is a Guy who likes to drive MT cars (of which I am also one). An enthusiast is someone who appreciates their cars because of how they feel, drive, can do, etc. A person who should not be called an enthusiast is someone who appreciates cars because of how many girls they can attract, how it will help them fit in, how it can make them money, etc.

In other words, choosing to only drive MT does NOT make you a car enthusiast.

I think it's funny that you feel as though I've implied that I'm superior to everyone. I've neither said nor implied such, and you're failing to really listen to what I've said. A true sports car enthusiast will prefer a manual becase it offers the greatest level of control and driver involvement. This doesn't mean that someone who drives an MR or any car with a similar type of transmission isn't an enthusiast, it just means that they don't value driver involvement as much as the more hardcore enthusiast. Does that make them less of an enthusiast, well that's subjective but not necessarily so. It makes them less of a purist perhaps, but who cares?

We all love cars, and you've taken what I've said completely the wrong way and gone on a warpath to try to belittle and insult me, and it's unnecessary and something that I'm not going to engage in. Thus why I've not returned any of the personal attacks that you've made towards me. The point of all this was to differentiate between the true enthusiast and the casual enthusiast, and again the truest form of an enthusiast will opt for a manual because it offers greater control and a higher level of driver involvement. That's it, so stop reading so much into it. Now can we please end this conversation?

just so you know the vw dsg, is sketchy... it enganges reverse and drive slow... its loose, and it doesnt handle much power... to make it handle power the upgrades are close to 4k, and we all know that mitsubishi has about half the intelligence of vw, so the sst is questionable...

I'm actually going to disagree with you on that. The tc sst has been hailed as one of the best of it's kind, being far superior to audi's dsg and on par with ferrari's newest forms of the unit. Mitubishi as a company knows how to build a turbo engine better than about anyone else, and to say that mitsu has half the intelligence of vw is both ignorant and flat out wrong. As much as I prefer a manual tranny is doesn't mean that I don't respect the SST, and judging from your comments you should probably go do some research about it before making comments like that.