With my VIII with the DTC's and BF Goodrich R1's I was averaging 2:13's. With my X with the PFC-01's & Star Specs I around 2:18's.

As far as the DTC's working on STI's I can't confirm that. I can only share my own experiences. I really wanted to like the DTC's but it was an absolute waste for me and I would never use them again. Once again my opinion.

Not only were they expensive but the real cost was the lack of enjoyment on the track. And we all know how much a track day cost us in time, fuel, hotel, tires, brakes, etc....

 

I agree that aside from not working as they should, it puts a damper on the whole experience.

What still puzzles me is that even if I find a solution with PF01s, it still doesnt explain why the other 5 compounds don't work.

Anyhow, more on this saga after I test at Mosport next week.

 

BBQman,
Based on your comments I agree with your assessment that it is indeed uneven pad deposits you're fighting. Your problem may be as simple as an incompatibility between the discs and pads you've tried. Disc metallurgy is all over the map. They all have very different alloys, and sometimes certain pads and discs simply don't play nice together.

If your latest round of testing at Mosport doesn't pan out, I'd recommend switching to a set of CL pads with some fresh discs. The RC6 or RC6E compound would probably be a good match for you based on your car, experience level, and other pads you've used. Pad deposit and judder has been more or less non-existent with Evo's running these pads. You also don't need to do any bed-in. You drive them 3/4 speed for the first two laps then have at it. For that reason I use the phrase, "the most user-friendly pads ever developed," in our advertising. As with you, I've used and sold just about every major compound over the past 10 years. I have never seen anything like these in terms of user-friendliness and lack of hassles.

I'd be extremely surprised if this didn't take care of your judder issues.

Also, I've done some papers and videos on these issues. Have you seen my videos and articles on managing bed-in's, pad swaps, etc.? Maybe there's a nugget that will help you buried in there somewhere.

One final tip...make sure you're off of the brakes as much as possible in the pits when you come off the track and they're hot. It's very common for people to forget when pulling into their pit spot, etc. They'll creep up and stand on the brakes for a few seconds, imprinting their pad on the disc.

 

That's a really good point! I always do one cool down lap, then when I pull it into the pits I try to use the brakes as little as possible. When I come to a stop, I don't even use the brakes at all - I just pull up very gently on the ebrake to come to a stop, then make sure I don't set the ebrake while parked (use wheel chocks if you need to).

 

Agree with this. But it sounds like your bed-in is where you're starting your problems. I find that the car brakes too well from 60-10 to get the pad material even spread around the rotor, 360*, to do an easy bed in. I've had to do bed-in multiple times on my first set of pads. I got it right the third time. Ea time I took the pads off, sanded them down and sanded down my rotors. PITA. What I'm finding is that typical bed-in procedures are a bit "aggressive" and create uneven deposits and even glazing. A little glaze I can live with if it's even, it just creates squeal but doesn't hurt brakes in terms of adding fade.

I'd recommend you do not hit the brakes as aggressively as you have been during the bed in stops, and add a couple of extra, up to 8 cycles. And be very very sure during your drive home or cool down that you don't touch the brakes. That's probably the hardest part, logistics to be able to do that cool down without adding an unwanted uneven "layer" (Not really much of a layer if its uneven is it?)

I had a little bit of a challenge bedding in the DTC-60's using that approach; I used one diff technique, doing a couple 30 or 40 - 0 warm ups, helpful. And I upped the final ones to 4 80-0 hard stops (recommendation is 2 of them, after your 6 60-0 runs). The last couple of those racing slow downs seemed to get the evenness I was looking for. The cool down however was a biatch, finding a place I could coast my car into, then turn around and go back home up hill.

 

^ And while I figure I will draw controversy, I can point out the partsgeek.com blank rotors from Winhere are decent OEM grade replacements for abusing if you're not worried about weight and rotational inertia. IMO, it's nice to have something laying around as a spare to abuse when you need to or when you want to try something else out and verify changes.

 

@Jeff, well I will be staring next season ( ours really ends on October) with fresh discs. But my issues were identical on OEMs and DBA 4000s slotted.
I thought they were decent discs to track.
I am currently entertaining the idea of having another stock race pad line in our store- so I may need to get in touch with you guys- I assume you are the importer for CL?
Will you be at SEMA and/or PRI?
email me if you get a chance.

@journeymansteve, I will be looking for cheap blanks for testing. I have an importer here in Canada that sells Winhere, but he has no listing yet.
What do they cost via partsgeek?

Also, since my braking issues started, I have paid much more attention to bed in, warm up laps, cool down lap(s) and no brakes in paddock as well as Ebrake when stopped. It hasn't changed anything, so I have to rule that out.

BTW, I must have flogged my ITR over 10 years with some many pad compounds- winter driving and you name it..... never had bedding issues or judder..... I guess the weight of the EVI is rearing its ugly head.

 

Yep, heavy little car. Good thing we have a lot of aluminum panels, or it'd be even heavier.

Partsgeek.com has the rotors for 60 for the fronts, and 40 something for the rear. All four set me back right at $200, a tad more with shipping. How could I not give them a try?
http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/200...ake_rotor.html

That bed-in is so hard IMHO because not only is the EVO weight something pretty dramatic, but with the size of the rotors and the awesome piston power, the thing stops like a 2400lb car. If we did some simple math, that means our bed-in procedures could be 50% hotter than with the light car. And the whole point of the bed in is to keep temps DOWN and build up gradually. I think we as Evo owners need to write our own bed-in procedures that take those two factors into account. Oh, I think I just sorta did that.

 

wow, thats really cheap.

I may have to look into that as an option, if I dedicate rotors with pads for the track and for street.

Thanks for all the good helpful input.

 

 

yeah yeah, I know!

 

I had this same experience with DTC-30's on the track.

I did NOT have this issue with HT-10's (that I bought used) or Ferodo DS2500's (of course they couldn't stop the car).

 

 

 

That's interesting. I had problems with Ferodos, Brembos and other pads. Never had problems with PFC01's or DTC-60's (haven't tried other Hawk compounds). The X is heavier than my IX, and that could be the difference. One other hand, I did change the rotors to 2-piece PFC's almost when I started road racing. The PFC rotors may the difference (cooling?) here. I know at least on person that runs the PFC rotors on a X without any issues.

Best combo for you to try is likely 2-piece PFC rotors, PFC01's and cooling ducts. I'm an HPDE instructor in FL and have run TT with NASA for a while (2009 NASA TTB Florida Champ too). Good luck.