I may buy an EVO, some advice
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I may buy an EVO, some advice
I posted this on another evo forum, but it doesn't seem to have as much traffic as this one. I got one point of view on that one, but I'd like to get some more. I am cutting and pasting from there so I don't have to type again. Thanks. Ramsey.
I have always liked the EVO and STI and really want to get one. I was looking for a new car a few months ago and bought a 350z because I couldn't find one in my area for the price I wanted and I was in a crunch for a car at the time. Anyhow, now I found a 2003 EVO with a little over 60k miles on it for almost 18k. I checked kelley blue books and it says it Blue Books higher which is good, but I'd like to know if that was a good year for the evo? Good, bad and so forth. I've always liked the look of the EVO a little better than the STI, and the fact that it's an Inline 4 instead of the boxer, (although I did like the extra half liter of displacement in the STI) is good. Anyhow, what are some common problems that I should be aware of? Anything that I can look at and tell visually that thier may be a problem? What's the normal compression numbers for the cylinders? If I am correct, an 03 Evo would be an EVO 8? Is it really going to be hampered by not haveing MIVEC? I'm not thinking it would be to terrible, maybe a little easier on the tunning side. What I'm going to be looking for down the road it close to 400 AWHP. Is this a realistic goal for an evo with stock internals, that will also be a daily driver? What would be common problems for running that much power other than the clutch? Can the tranny take it? From what I've heard* the evo comes with a good block and forged internals from the Factory. Anyhow, is the 8 a good car, and would you guys buy it, or should I just pass on the deal and look for an evo 9 or STI? Thank you in advance. Ramsey.
I have always liked the EVO and STI and really want to get one. I was looking for a new car a few months ago and bought a 350z because I couldn't find one in my area for the price I wanted and I was in a crunch for a car at the time. Anyhow, now I found a 2003 EVO with a little over 60k miles on it for almost 18k. I checked kelley blue books and it says it Blue Books higher which is good, but I'd like to know if that was a good year for the evo? Good, bad and so forth. I've always liked the look of the EVO a little better than the STI, and the fact that it's an Inline 4 instead of the boxer, (although I did like the extra half liter of displacement in the STI) is good. Anyhow, what are some common problems that I should be aware of? Anything that I can look at and tell visually that thier may be a problem? What's the normal compression numbers for the cylinders? If I am correct, an 03 Evo would be an EVO 8? Is it really going to be hampered by not haveing MIVEC? I'm not thinking it would be to terrible, maybe a little easier on the tunning side. What I'm going to be looking for down the road it close to 400 AWHP. Is this a realistic goal for an evo with stock internals, that will also be a daily driver? What would be common problems for running that much power other than the clutch? Can the tranny take it? From what I've heard* the evo comes with a good block and forged internals from the Factory. Anyhow, is the 8 a good car, and would you guys buy it, or should I just pass on the deal and look for an evo 9 or STI? Thank you in advance. Ramsey.
That Evo sounds like it would be good for your future goals. The one problem with 03-04 (some, not all) is that the transfer cases had some issues. I would take it for a test drive and listen for any excessive whines from the drivetrain. 400awhp is def a realistic goal for the stock block and as long as you find yourself a reputable tuner, the car should be a great daily driver.
Yeah, mine had issues with TC and I never launched it or rallied it at all...
As with any used car there are lots of things to check, but remember it is an Evo, so there are gonna be lots of weird noises anyway... 400 whp should be a pretty easy goal to reach on stock internals, I know 350 whp (depending on the dyno...) is a really easy goal to reach.
That price isn't low, Kelly Blue Book is just calculated on an average but doesn't actually read into the market in detail. 18k for 60k mile Evo 8 is a pretty good deal, especially if it has a decent bit of mods, yes, but there are plenty around those miles selling for not much higher. I had a 3k stereo system in mine as well as a few other mods and I happily let it go for 18.5k (trade-in, so I got ~20k after the tax break here in Utah) w/ 52k miles on it. As far as I have heard the new owner is plenty happy as well.
But yeah, auction value on my Evo in August when I was looking to sell it was 16k. So you are most likely paying him 2k more than almost any dealer would give him on trade, and if you don't have a tax break like we do, its a pretty good deal for him too. 18-20k is where I would expect to pay for an '03 with that many miles. Maybe a bit more if it was in great condition and had mods I really liked on it.
Well, to answer your question on abuse, yes, hell yes actually, but it depends on the abuse and the care you put into the car. Abuse wears out "stuff" faster, that's a given. Mine was taken to redline more than a few times daily, I tracked it for almost two and a half years (30+ race days). Hard shifting depends on what you mean by hard shifting (quick strong shifts aren't good for much anyway, its better to be smooth and not miss a gear, at least with track racing/DD). Launching it will not hold up to at all unless it already has an aftermarket clutch, its AWD with lots o power, it isn't made to be launched from the factory. I did oil/tranny/tc changes every 3k miles when I was tracking it and over the winter/off-season I'd let it go 5k. Brakefluid change every other track day, and I ran through pads and tires pretty quick usually. It takes abuse well, especially in a fairly stock form but you have to remember that you have to take care of what you're abusing, check your oil EVERY day for sure.
If you have any other questions I'd be happy to answer.
As with any used car there are lots of things to check, but remember it is an Evo, so there are gonna be lots of weird noises anyway... 400 whp should be a pretty easy goal to reach on stock internals, I know 350 whp (depending on the dyno...) is a really easy goal to reach.
That price isn't low, Kelly Blue Book is just calculated on an average but doesn't actually read into the market in detail. 18k for 60k mile Evo 8 is a pretty good deal, especially if it has a decent bit of mods, yes, but there are plenty around those miles selling for not much higher. I had a 3k stereo system in mine as well as a few other mods and I happily let it go for 18.5k (trade-in, so I got ~20k after the tax break here in Utah) w/ 52k miles on it. As far as I have heard the new owner is plenty happy as well.
But yeah, auction value on my Evo in August when I was looking to sell it was 16k. So you are most likely paying him 2k more than almost any dealer would give him on trade, and if you don't have a tax break like we do, its a pretty good deal for him too. 18-20k is where I would expect to pay for an '03 with that many miles. Maybe a bit more if it was in great condition and had mods I really liked on it.
Well, to answer your question on abuse, yes, hell yes actually, but it depends on the abuse and the care you put into the car. Abuse wears out "stuff" faster, that's a given. Mine was taken to redline more than a few times daily, I tracked it for almost two and a half years (30+ race days). Hard shifting depends on what you mean by hard shifting (quick strong shifts aren't good for much anyway, its better to be smooth and not miss a gear, at least with track racing/DD). Launching it will not hold up to at all unless it already has an aftermarket clutch, its AWD with lots o power, it isn't made to be launched from the factory. I did oil/tranny/tc changes every 3k miles when I was tracking it and over the winter/off-season I'd let it go 5k. Brakefluid change every other track day, and I ran through pads and tires pretty quick usually. It takes abuse well, especially in a fairly stock form but you have to remember that you have to take care of what you're abusing, check your oil EVERY day for sure.
If you have any other questions I'd be happy to answer.
Last edited by UT_Evo; Dec 14, 2007 at 07:26 AM.
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What to look for
Yeah, mine had issues with TC and I never launched it or rallied it at all...
As with any used car there are lots of things to check, but remember it is an Evo, so there are gonna be lots of weird noises anyway... 400 whp should be a pretty easy goal to reach on stock internals, I know 350 whp (depending on the dyno...) is a really easy goal to reach.
That price isn't low, Kelly Blue Book is just calculated on an average but doesn't actually read into the market in detail. 18k for 60k mile Evo 8 is a pretty good deal, especially if it has a decent bit of mods, yes, but there are plenty around those miles selling for not much higher. I had a 3k stereo system in mine as well as a few other mods and I happily let it go for 18.5k (trade-in, so I got ~20k after the tax break here in Utah) w/ 52k miles on it. As far as I have heard the new owner is plenty happy as well.
But yeah, auction value on my Evo in August when I was looking to sell it was 16k. So you are most likely paying him 2k more than almost any dealer would give him on trade, and if you don't have a tax break like we do, its a pretty good deal for him too. 18-20k is where I would expect to pay for an '03 with that many miles. Maybe a bit more if it was in great condition and had mods I really liked on it.
Well, to answer your question on abuse, yes, hell yes actually, but it depends on the abuse and the care you put into the car. Abuse wears out "stuff" faster, that's a given. Mine was taken to redline more than a few times daily, I tracked it for almost two and a half years (30+ race days). Hard shifting depends on what you mean by hard shifting (quick strong shifts aren't good for much anyway, its better to be smooth and not miss a gear, at least with track racing/DD). Launching it will not hold up to at all unless it already has an aftermarket clutch, its AWD with lots o power, it isn't made to be launched from the factory. I did oil/tranny/tc changes every 3k miles when I was tracking it and over the winter/off-season I'd let it go 5k. Brakefluid change every other track day, and I ran through pads and tires pretty quick usually. It takes abuse well, especially in a fairly stock form but you have to remember that you have to take care of what you're abusing, check your oil EVERY day for sure.
If you have any other questions I'd be happy to answer.
As with any used car there are lots of things to check, but remember it is an Evo, so there are gonna be lots of weird noises anyway... 400 whp should be a pretty easy goal to reach on stock internals, I know 350 whp (depending on the dyno...) is a really easy goal to reach.
That price isn't low, Kelly Blue Book is just calculated on an average but doesn't actually read into the market in detail. 18k for 60k mile Evo 8 is a pretty good deal, especially if it has a decent bit of mods, yes, but there are plenty around those miles selling for not much higher. I had a 3k stereo system in mine as well as a few other mods and I happily let it go for 18.5k (trade-in, so I got ~20k after the tax break here in Utah) w/ 52k miles on it. As far as I have heard the new owner is plenty happy as well.
But yeah, auction value on my Evo in August when I was looking to sell it was 16k. So you are most likely paying him 2k more than almost any dealer would give him on trade, and if you don't have a tax break like we do, its a pretty good deal for him too. 18-20k is where I would expect to pay for an '03 with that many miles. Maybe a bit more if it was in great condition and had mods I really liked on it.
Well, to answer your question on abuse, yes, hell yes actually, but it depends on the abuse and the care you put into the car. Abuse wears out "stuff" faster, that's a given. Mine was taken to redline more than a few times daily, I tracked it for almost two and a half years (30+ race days). Hard shifting depends on what you mean by hard shifting (quick strong shifts aren't good for much anyway, its better to be smooth and not miss a gear, at least with track racing/DD). Launching it will not hold up to at all unless it already has an aftermarket clutch, its AWD with lots o power, it isn't made to be launched from the factory. I did oil/tranny/tc changes every 3k miles when I was tracking it and over the winter/off-season I'd let it go 5k. Brakefluid change every other track day, and I ran through pads and tires pretty quick usually. It takes abuse well, especially in a fairly stock form but you have to remember that you have to take care of what you're abusing, check your oil EVERY day for sure.
If you have any other questions I'd be happy to answer.
Yes, an Evo is a great car. Very strong, and can take tons of abuse; however, there is a few things I would suggest you look for. #1 in my list is to make sure it was well maintained. Make sure the person you are buying it from has recipes for oil changes, TC/Tansmission oil changes, and spend a little extra to get a boost leak test and a compression test done by your mechanic. Also, this is a must; make sure you know when the clutch was replaced last.
Make sure you also know all the mods in the car. And DO NOT get it from a dealer. One cant generalize, but I would say 9 out of 10 dealers do not knows EVOs enough to even know what mods they have when they sell it to you, they will overcharge you, and 90% of the time they will not honor warranty claims even if the car was moded when you purchased it from them. It’s always better to get to know the owner and speak to him to know the exact condition of the car.
As far as years go, If you can, get an Evo 05 or above. ACD does make a difference, and also the 05 came with a 10.5 housing (vs a 9.8 for 03-04). I have mine for sale. I am in IL, so let me know if you would like more info.
I've just bought nearly the same car as what you’re looking at buying a 03 Evo with 58000 miles. Yes 03 is an Evo 8 or Evolution VIII. My car had nearly 58,000 miles when I bought it and has a decent list of tasteful mods (which I would have done anyway). I bought my privately and paid the Kelly blue book fair price for the car as it had a cracked windshield, it was missing the rear wing (I picked a wing up on Ebay for $250 which was the same color with no lacquer peel which I’ve recently fitted), had a dent on a door and is due it’s major 60,000 mile service soon. Despite that the car is in great condition and so far I love my Evo to bits. I’m very happy with my buy and love Evo motoring.
My fear before buying the car was the horror stories I heard about the transmission and drive line.... transfer cases blowing up and OEM clutches lasting less than 9,000 miles. The truth - yes this is possible but just how likely is an unknown factor. I think an 03 evo would be a great car for you. Yes 400 awp is obtainable on stock internals and a reputable tuner such as Bushur or AMS should be able would be the best people to set you up for a daily driver running that sort of power.
Here what I would do. Firstly find a few Evo 8's in your area and price range (maybe 3 or 4), go look at them and test drive them. Test drive an STi too if you like too. Test drive each car and see how tight it feels.
These are the questions you should be asking yourself when test driving:
Does the car feel tight - nice responsive steering, braking accel and decell?
Are there any funny noises or whines (the evo gearbox does make whiney noises.... I'm talking about real noisy whines)?
How does the clutch feel? Does it slip?
Does the shift feel positive and smooth?
Does it drive and brake in a straight line without wondering?
Is the interior clean and in decent condition? Do all the toys work?
Give it a good look over:
Look for a history of bills and maintenance on each car, does the car you want to buy look in good condition? A car that looks clean has more than likely been well looked after and maintained.
Look for crash damage or obvious repair work:
Check to see if the color match looks good all round - check shut lines - signs of overspray.
Pop hood and listen to see how it runs – is it smooth? What does the car idle at both cold and warm? How clean is the engine bay? Any leaks? Any rattles or noisy knocking / tapping noises? Whilst under the hood check to see if it looks like any panels have been replaced - again check for overspray.
Look in wheel well and check to see if it looks dinted in - has it been rear ended?
Compare VIN on car to VIN on title.
Check that the title is clean.
Get a carfax!!! (so handy and worth the $30 or so)
And lastly - what is your gut instinct? Number 1 rule - If in doubt walk away!!
I’m fairly confident when it comes to buying a car and have a fair amount of mechanical knowledge and know what I'm to look for but not everyone is as confident. The best thing to do if you’re still unsure is to get the car inspected by someone who knows what they're looking at. Preferably an Evo specialist. Do you have a friend who knows what to look for? If yes bring them with you – that’s free and 2 pairs of eyes are better than one.
OK well I’m sure I’m missing things but that should help you out. There might even be an official Evo buying guide. I’m sure other forum members will chip in to this.
I hope I have helped and good look buying your Evo. After you’ve bought the right car there is no looking back and you won’t regret a thing! Enjoy.
Karl
P.S My car has 280awp, I'm running 22psi, the clutch is stock, has yet to be replace and feels perfect in every way. My transfer case is quiet as a mouse (by evo standards). Don't let the horror stories and high millage put you off. If past owners have maintained the car properly and know how to drive these parts should last. Just my 2 cents.
My fear before buying the car was the horror stories I heard about the transmission and drive line.... transfer cases blowing up and OEM clutches lasting less than 9,000 miles. The truth - yes this is possible but just how likely is an unknown factor. I think an 03 evo would be a great car for you. Yes 400 awp is obtainable on stock internals and a reputable tuner such as Bushur or AMS should be able would be the best people to set you up for a daily driver running that sort of power.
Here what I would do. Firstly find a few Evo 8's in your area and price range (maybe 3 or 4), go look at them and test drive them. Test drive an STi too if you like too. Test drive each car and see how tight it feels.
These are the questions you should be asking yourself when test driving:
Does the car feel tight - nice responsive steering, braking accel and decell?
Are there any funny noises or whines (the evo gearbox does make whiney noises.... I'm talking about real noisy whines)?
How does the clutch feel? Does it slip?
Does the shift feel positive and smooth?
Does it drive and brake in a straight line without wondering?
Is the interior clean and in decent condition? Do all the toys work?
Give it a good look over:
Look for a history of bills and maintenance on each car, does the car you want to buy look in good condition? A car that looks clean has more than likely been well looked after and maintained.
Look for crash damage or obvious repair work:
Check to see if the color match looks good all round - check shut lines - signs of overspray.
Pop hood and listen to see how it runs – is it smooth? What does the car idle at both cold and warm? How clean is the engine bay? Any leaks? Any rattles or noisy knocking / tapping noises? Whilst under the hood check to see if it looks like any panels have been replaced - again check for overspray.
Look in wheel well and check to see if it looks dinted in - has it been rear ended?
Compare VIN on car to VIN on title.
Check that the title is clean.
Get a carfax!!! (so handy and worth the $30 or so)
And lastly - what is your gut instinct? Number 1 rule - If in doubt walk away!!
I’m fairly confident when it comes to buying a car and have a fair amount of mechanical knowledge and know what I'm to look for but not everyone is as confident. The best thing to do if you’re still unsure is to get the car inspected by someone who knows what they're looking at. Preferably an Evo specialist. Do you have a friend who knows what to look for? If yes bring them with you – that’s free and 2 pairs of eyes are better than one.
OK well I’m sure I’m missing things but that should help you out. There might even be an official Evo buying guide. I’m sure other forum members will chip in to this.
I hope I have helped and good look buying your Evo. After you’ve bought the right car there is no looking back and you won’t regret a thing! Enjoy.
Karl
P.S My car has 280awp, I'm running 22psi, the clutch is stock, has yet to be replace and feels perfect in every way. My transfer case is quiet as a mouse (by evo standards). Don't let the horror stories and high millage put you off. If past owners have maintained the car properly and know how to drive these parts should last. Just my 2 cents.
Last edited by Kins; Dec 14, 2007 at 08:19 AM.
The statement about the dealers knowing jack squat is almost always 100% accurate. The dealer that I traded in my car to was one of those smaller family owned dealers so I became good friends with almost everyone there, when they would have a client come in and ask questions about the Evo they'd call me and I'd answer any questions they had about mods and stuff.
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The statement about the dealers knowing jack squat is almost always 100% accurate. The dealer that I traded in my car to was one of those smaller family owned dealers so I became good friends with almost everyone there, when they would have a client come in and ask questions about the Evo they'd call me and I'd answer any questions they had about mods and stuff.
UT Evo - I see you now drive a Carrera 4, nice choice dude. I'm looking at buying a 996 C4 at some point. Do you miss the Evo and how does the Porker compare?
Sorry for the diversion folks - back on topic please.
Sorry for the diversion folks - back on topic please.
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From: Riverside, CA
I have a deep seated fear about RMS failures on 996 non-turbo-non-GT3 posches.
the 03's have the peeling brake clear coat issue (mine's an 03 and the calipers look like crap), possible wing clear coat issues (mine's mint), and the 9.8 hotside on the 03-04 vs the 10.5 hotside on the '05, not to mention the TC issue, which someone already mentioned.
It sounds like a good deal, but those are the main things to look for when you're thinking about an '03.
It sounds like a good deal, but those are the main things to look for when you're thinking about an '03.
Raced mine for 3 years, other than changing color the calipers had no issue, nor did the spoiler (I live in Salt Lake City, keyword SALT)... However my TC did go bad for no apparent reason (my clutch was still stock and I didn't rally the car). If it were me I'd buy an '06 GSR, without SSL (if they came with it even...). I hate the look of the 9, but that's 3 years of R&D on the problems of the other models, plus mivec, minus funny 8urv8 jokes, adding funny 69 jokes. Course if it were me the only reason I'd be buying an Evo again is as a race car and then I'd buy an '04 RS.
