The truth is for turboXS the cheaper solution is to use speed density.. the majority of the work is in calculations, and half the job is done with the external MAP sensor, in order to remove MAF, they need to do the calculations for load, the only part you'd be missing is the IAT sensor and I'm sure thats alot easier to do. There's no real pressing need to integrate the feature of a Karmann converter into the UTEC, but I do think it may be a good idea to persue an addon module and conversion kit. I think the reason pro-flow wasn't as successful is its lack of plug and play, and general lack of awareness. I had stumbled across their products just before I got my Evo, and waited until I saw someone "Tried it" on an Evo.. Ultimate Racing later offered the kit, but they didn't heavily promote it on their own car or website (I have to assume they had difficulty with getting it to work)

Nothing is perfect.. Even the blowthrough sensor has some quirks to it, its just I found it to be pretty adjustable, and when I put time into it, and understood more about how the ECU did things, it became easier to get it working right.. If you want to have a really drivable car, you probably should put the sensor before the turbo, it still has its advantages, but you wouldn't be able to run a VTA BOV in this configuration.. But its a much simpler bolt-on installation and wiring would be a snap if it had a OEM connector..

1) Drawthrough advantages slightly better throttle response, no tip-in stumble due to airflow lag from the turbo

2) blowthrough advantages, downright accurate measure of air going into the engine

Regardless, both ways work (i've done them both) better than a stock MAF, but you have to weigh your other mods.

Another major issue.. Pro-flow is no longer in business, and I have not yet gotten a SplitSec (www.splitsec.com) PSC-01 or ARM-2k to test (I think those are the part numbers) In theory, the splitsec products might work out a little better because of more adjustability, it does have one problem, its max frequency output is 2300hz, GIANT TURBO kits can easily hit 2500hz.. The proflow karmann converter can produce a signal of 3000hz (equivalent to over 600whp)

If someone works with Splitsec, or knows them, I'd like to get some of their components to evaluate.. It seems like in the case of the splitsec product, you can use a Field harness and splice the sensor signals into it and just disconnect the MAF. This is partially because their control unit is intended to be mounted inside the car. this might work out for some people because it means you don't need to cut up your stock MAF harness, or extract (or somehow aquire) a connector off a MAF sensor to make it plug and play. Ultimately that might make it easier to provide an inexpensive alternative.....

MAF Sensor $150-$350 depending on the brand of Ford Cobra sensor
Splitsec ARC is around $550, their PSC is around $350 (still not cheap)
Field jump harness $109-$125

As you can see, its around the same price.. unfortunately the control box needs to be around $150 for it to become a cost effective solution. (bring the whole setup to under $500 and I'm sure they'd sell easily)


Some of you speed density guys should also know there's a product out there that will work for you, its called MAP ECU, its basically a speed density converter and S-AFC in one.. a little redundant in function, but the nature of any MAF replacment ends up being similar to that anyway.

 

wow a lot of what you say is a forign language to me but im slowly learning i would love to give this a try i really hope it is offerd soon... or i can look into the UR one....

 

Yes Jack is on a different planet, but everything he says makes me feel I made the right choice in a tuning tool. I am also waiting for some sort of speed density conversion but I do like the Jacks ideas of controlling tip in throttle and setting the idle speed as well. It can help idle out lopey cams.

 

Oh yeah.. Its not so important that they do a MAF conversion, speed density is ok too.. Those other features will have to come with either anyway.

 

I can say this... Our Engineers are busy working . BTW, we have a few close WRX customers running their MAF's in blow through configuration. This is what I call "best of both worlds"

Jermaine@turboxs.com

 

Such a tease!

 

I didn't understand this crap at first (from Jack's original thread), but now that i've read this and the other one, I think this would be a phenominal kit if it could be sold as an upper intercooler pipe kit! And make it P-N-P of course!

 

The "Missing link" at the moment is going to be the electronics now that Pro-Flow is no longer in business, what I'm hoping is that the UTEC can incorporate the technology, or another inexpensive electronic box turns up (to make the setup more cost effective) I have the prototype bushcur upper pipe with blowthrough sensor on my car that Pro-Flow made for me. That itself won't be difficult to have reproduced since the sensor saddle itself is a pretty straightforward bit of machining. Plus there are at least two companies making versions of the Ford Cobra MAF sensor that can easily be adapted to work.

 

The route we are pursuing their will be no additional hardwre besides the Maf at this point...

 

Sweet.. This is the kind of news I like..

 

if this happens, you wont even to buy a UTEC. They will be back ordered for months...It will be the hottest thing around...........RRR

 

Yep.. Blowthrough and your replacement boost control solenoid and you'll pretty much completely change the market..

 

I am ready for change =)
I also heard that there may be a new version of firmware for the STi coming out pretty soon! Cant wait for some updates!

 

i hope turboxs makes it such that you can run it with the stock ecu or other ecu's that use the stock maf.

 

You can do that now.. The Pro-Flow blowthrough meter and electronics are designed for that purpose, however proflow is no longer in business so your other source for the electronics is www.splitsec.com

the advantage of using the UTEC in place of those electronics is the flexibility you gain by having either mapping or other algorithms for volts to Karmann frequency, you can much closer reproduce the stock MAF output regardless of whether its a drawthrough or blowthrough setup.

One of the difficulties (which is also the advantage of the blowthrough maf) is that the output is currently very linear, which is good because its stable and smooth, but its bad because the stock ECU expects the reading to be slightly curved and therefore takes some time, and trial and error to make adjustments for closed loop fueling where your cruise RPM is in the right fuel trim, and then altering the idle so its also correct, this will reproduce the slightly curved output that the stock ECU wants.

If you integrate this feature into the UTEC, you now have a signal to output mapping ability to be able to reproduce this curve correctly without using the tuning maps to compensate for anything, then you can use the fuel tuning maps for what their intended for, and thats fuel tuning.

Right now, I have my MAF's outputl set slightly rich, so my cruise RPM is happy with under 10% Long term fuel trim adjustment, but when the car idles, it tends to idle slightly rich at 40hz, 40hz at 1000rpm is correct, however the car's normal idle at 850rpm is approximately 32hz, so I use the 0% column in the UTEC for 750rpm, 500rpm and 250rpm to remove a percentage of fuel so that the trims are normalized at rpm's below the MAF's cutoff and therefore doesn't run "out of range" below 1000rpm (kinda creates a fake range of airflow below 1000rpm to keep the ECU happy on cold starts and whatnot where the MAF reading might run abnormally rich or lean when it runs open loop until the O2 sensor warms up)